Perfect Team Paradigm shift suggestion

orbops · 04-02-2021, 07:11 PM

I'm new to Perfect Team, only in my 2nd season - but it seems like it would be great if the program had a paradigm shift in the future to keep it fresh throughout the version lifetime. From what I've read on the boards, once you can get to the Perfect & Diamond Leagues, many rosters have the same set of superstar players, and that in general for Live player cards, there are tons of duplicates.

Here are my suggestions to shake things up:

Instead of having duplicates, make each player unique and include many more players from past seasons. Currently in OOTP there are 25 players/team, 17 leagues with maybe 30 teams/league, and 6 divisions, so that's 76,500 players (25*17*30*6). That's enough players to cover over 100 years of baseball and 'educates' owners knowledge of existing and old time players.

A player would only be held for up to 25 seasons, and then goes back in the auction pool, and is sold back at the current or original value automatically (so that 'pay to win' owners get back their original investment, or higher current value). Since OOTP plays 52 years in a calendar year - that's probably about 125 seasons worth before the server is turned off for that version. This way, the auction house will become much more exciting, and each team will need to be completely redrafted up to 5 times for each OOTP version. The owners could have their reserve roster available to fill in the active roster if they are unavailable to replace long held players.

Set up all players to have a usage cap based on that single year's appearances (ABs or IP). That would allow partial season phenoms to be used. An example is 2013 Yasiel Puig who didn't get called up until Jun 3rd, but played in 104 games.

Add a wishlist to the auction house so that if a player you covet becomes available, you get notified. This allows everyone an easier way to build a specialized team such as all Dodgers.

For those that are completely happy with Perfect Team the way it is, create another Perfect Team universe with my suggestions, and one universe with the status quo.

All of my suggestions are based on personal experiences as a commish playing in online rotisserie leagues. Normally rotisserie leagues get stale throughout the season because after the draft, things are fairly static and most of the transactions are from the subset of owners who stay involved every day/week. By forcing elite players to be periodically re-auctioned, it creates a fresh team, and forces owners to shuffle their rosters.

Marleigh · 04-03-2021, 09:38 AM

This game mode is mainly designed for whales to spend money on, most of your suggestions wouldn't work

Mikecouil · 04-03-2021, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marleigh

This game mode is mainly designed for whales to spend money on, most of your suggestions wouldn't work

Indeed. OOTP would be foolish to discourage the whales from doing whale stuff.

They gave us poors perfect draft this year, which is pretty cool.

Vanden · 04-08-2021, 03:48 AM

There are two F2P options I'm aware of, check out these threads.

It shakes things up to an extent, especially the league that doesn't use Live cards.

I'm horrible at this game, but I have fun, and these 2 F2P leagues are pretty great, check it out

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=325409

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=325259

QuantaCondor · 04-08-2021, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orbops

Here are my suggestions to shake things up:

Instead of having duplicates, make each player unique and include many more players from past seasons. Currently in OOTP there are 25 players/team, 17 leagues with maybe 30 teams/league, and 6 divisions, so that's 76,500 players (25*17*30*6). That's enough players to cover over 100 years of baseball and 'educates' owners knowledge of existing and old time players.

A player would only be held for up to 25 seasons, and then goes back in the auction pool, and is sold back at the current or original value automatically (so that 'pay to win' owners get back their original investment, or higher current value). Since OOTP plays 52 years in a calendar year - that's probably about 125 seasons worth before the server is turned off for that version. This way, the auction house will become much more exciting, and each team will need to be completely redrafted up to 5 times for each OOTP version. The owners could have their reserve roster available to fill in the active roster if they are unavailable to replace long held players.

Set up all players to have a usage cap based on that single year's appearances (ABs or IP). That would allow partial season phenoms to be used. An example is 2013 Yasiel Puig who didn't get called up until Jun 3rd, but played in 104 games.

Add a wishlist to the auction house so that if a player you covet becomes available, you get notified. This allows everyone an easier way to build a specialized team such as all Dodgers.

For those that are completely happy with Perfect Team the way it is, create another Perfect Team universe with my suggestions, and one universe with the status quo.

There are a whole host of issues with these suggestions involving server costs, development costs, the total nuking of tournaments and collections, the game economy, how it would make PT more P2W than anyone has ever seen before, that are not worth getting into. The main specific reason why this doesn't work is the miscalculation of the total playerbase: there are currently roughly 10000 PT teams, each with 26 players, for a grand total of 260k players just on active rosters, not counting collections or tournaments. And don't even bother with collections and tournaments if this kind of ridiculous player diversity existed; it'd be impossible to meaningfully teambuild. The reason PT works is that you can build a roster of players from a slate of options, and it doesn't work as a mode if you're not able to go find those options easily. You can fix the player diversity problems WAY, WAY easier without nuking the mode like that.

If you like online leagues, they have value and you can play them just fine. Online leagues are cool. But there's no point trying to turn PT into an infinitely worse version of that.

EDIT: To give a contrasting view, if you want a paradigm shift, PT just needs to go all-in on making tournaments meaningfully competitive. Tournaments (especially in rotating or nonstandard formats) are the most interesting and skill-testing feature of PT, but their reward structure and general format seems to take a backseat to main leagues. As long as the OOTPD strategy towards making tournaments competitive only involves once-a-month type events and doesn't reward people who win dailies/weeklies outside of giving cards/packs/PP, it's going to feel like an afterthought.

orbops · 04-08-2021, 01:45 PM

Actually both of us are wrong on the number of teams. Down at the bottom of the Universe screen, it says there are 22362 teams. I mistakenly didn't realize that you can scroll to the right on the Universe display.

With the much higher number of teams, that comes up to 559K players. Since about 1100-1400 players are used each season in MLB, that comes up to about 110K in 100 years. Revise my concept to allow players to be duplicated maybe 10 times per level.

In terms of server costs or tournaments, I'm suggesting splitting up the current leagues so that maybe 75% stay on Perfect Team, and 25% are converted to new PT concepts - so those that like things the way they are don't have to change, while the other 25% can be used as a testbed of new concepts (similar to the way MLB is using the minors to try out new rules).

I like your idea of rewarding those that like dailies or weeklies. I would take it a step further and put owners who access Perfect Team daily/weekly into their own leagues, and those that are once a month or longer into separate leagues. That way the non-competitive teams aren't just fodder for those owners who access daily/weekly.

Ultimately, I think incorporating new suggestions from the base keeps development fresh. I don't think it's fun to see players that have been on the same team for 100 straight simulated years.

TrailGuideSteve · 04-08-2021, 01:54 PM

Wasn't this solved with Perfect Draft? I'm not exactly F2P, but also not throwing a ton of cash at the game. I personally would rather the focus go towards PD and tourneys to level the PT playing field. This idea would just hurt whales more than it would help F2P players.

QuantaCondor · 04-08-2021, 02:07 PM

You must be looking at PT21: current PT22 universe team count is 9554 (rounding up to 10k). And when I say server costs, I mean the backend processing required to maintain unique instances of many, many more cards than the 5kish that we usually get. This cost is probably not obvious, but in a suggestion like this it's massive. Plus, there are still major issues in making collections and tournaments unusable, essentially, and issues in making the economy one where ALL good cards, not just the very best ones, are extremely rare. Ultimate team and card games have been around for a while and there is a very good reason why even a "rare" card might have dozens or even hundreds of copies in existence.

When I say daily/weeklies I'm talking about the tournament scene. There's no reason to punish active players who e.g. have terrible teams by putting them in leagues with good and active players. That will and does happen anyway via the pro/rel ladder, with ghost teams at the bottom and good teams on top. Any other filtering system that doesnt attempt to sort by team quality just leads to massive talent mismatches (plus it's not as interesting from a gameplay perspective-- pro/rel ladders are a good feature of competitive leagues).

It's exceedingly rare for one player to stay on a team for a very long time at the high levels, given the powercreep inherent in the game. Maybe if you're playing PT21 against a bunch of abandoned ghost teams at low levels you'll see that, but not at the cutting edge; you'll get beat down by people who keep engaged.

There are lots of ways to keep PT fresh without tearing up the floors entirely. I think ideas aimed at helping that are good, but there should be some realism invoked first and think about the broader implications to the economy, collections, tournaments, big spender, F2P, and competitive scene. Many people slam their wacky pet idea down on the forums, but if it isn't realistic it is just noise. But the devs do read and listen, and good and realistic ideas do often make it in.

QuantaCondor · 04-08-2021, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrailGuideSteve

Wasn't this solved with Perfect Draft? I'm not exactly F2P, but also not throwing a ton of cash at the game. I personally would rather the focus go towards PD and tourneys to level the PT playing field. This idea would just hurt whales more than it would help F2P players.

Exactly this, although I don't think this suggestion would hurt whales much, just harm f2p and turn main leagues into a wallet-off to chase the exceedingly rare players. Tournaments need to be completely reframed as the place where, along with perfect league, sustained and high level competition happens daily.

orbops · 04-08-2021, 02:18 PM

Actually I'm only playing OOTP 20 and haven't installed v21 yet. I'll probably install it in May 2021 after the servers are shut down. My main focus to date has been historical season replays, but discovered that the historical replays have a few bugs (that may be fixed in v22).

QuantaCondor · 04-08-2021, 02:22 PM

Yeah, I would definitely recommend playing PT22 before thinking up any major ways to change it. Much is different relative to PT20, and especially getting to watch the content and league metas evolve in real time is important (and fun).

Syd Thrift · 04-08-2021, 04:18 PM

I would like to see a way for the meta to not get so calcified as the season progresses. I think PT is fun for the first couple months as you figure out what players work and who do not, then once that’s all figured out you’re just kind of plugging away at achieving the meta team, which gets worse and worse itself because as people realize who makes up the meta at each level those players start costing a fortune, and after a while it’s all a bit samey save for the occasional new card drop or increase / decrease in Live player value.

I feel like my idea with getting card drops for managers and stadia would help. After a while it’d just be part of the meta too but at least if you allowed some historical but wonky parks like the Polo Grounds or old Yankee Stadium there would be new metas to pursue.

04-02-2021, 07:11 PM	#1
orbops Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Cannon Beach, OR Posts: 65	Perfect Team Paradigm shift suggestion I'm new to Perfect Team, only in my 2nd season - but it seems like it would be great if the program had a paradigm shift in the future to keep it fresh throughout the version lifetime. From what I've read on the boards, once you can get to the Perfect & Diamond Leagues, many rosters have the same set of superstar players, and that in general for Live player cards, there are tons of duplicates. Here are my suggestions to shake things up: Instead of having duplicates, make each player unique and include many more players from past seasons. Currently in OOTP there are 25 players/team, 17 leagues with maybe 30 teams/league, and 6 divisions, so that's 76,500 players (251730*6). That's enough players to cover over 100 years of baseball and 'educates' owners knowledge of existing and old time players. A player would only be held for up to 25 seasons, and then goes back in the auction pool, and is sold back at the current or original value automatically (so that 'pay to win' owners get back their original investment, or higher current value). Since OOTP plays 52 years in a calendar year - that's probably about 125 seasons worth before the server is turned off for that version. This way, the auction house will become much more exciting, and each team will need to be completely redrafted up to 5 times for each OOTP version. The owners could have their reserve roster available to fill in the active roster if they are unavailable to replace long held players. Set up all players to have a usage cap based on that single year's appearances (ABs or IP). That would allow partial season phenoms to be used. An example is 2013 Yasiel Puig who didn't get called up until Jun 3rd, but played in 104 games. Add a wishlist to the auction house so that if a player you covet becomes available, you get notified. This allows everyone an easier way to build a specialized team such as all Dodgers. For those that are completely happy with Perfect Team the way it is, create another Perfect Team universe with my suggestions, and one universe with the status quo. All of my suggestions are based on personal experiences as a commish playing in online rotisserie leagues. Normally rotisserie leagues get stale throughout the season because after the draft, things are fairly static and most of the transactions are from the subset of owners who stay involved every day/week. By forcing elite players to be periodically re-auctioned, it creates a fresh team, and forces owners to shuffle their rosters.

04-03-2021, 09:38 AM	#2
Marleigh All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: UK Posts: 541	This game mode is mainly designed for whales to spend money on, most of your suggestions wouldn't work __________________

04-08-2021, 03:48 AM	#4
Vanden Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 25	There are two F2P options I'm aware of, check out these threads. It shakes things up to an extent, especially the league that doesn't use Live cards. I'm horrible at this game, but I have fun, and these 2 F2P leagues are pretty great, check it out https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=325409 https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=325259 __________________ Last edited by Vanden; 04-08-2021 at 03:50 AM.

04-08-2021, 02:07 PM	#8
QuantaCondor All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 560	You must be looking at PT21: current PT22 universe team count is 9554 (rounding up to 10k). And when I say server costs, I mean the backend processing required to maintain unique instances of many, many more cards than the 5kish that we usually get. This cost is probably not obvious, but in a suggestion like this it's massive. Plus, there are still major issues in making collections and tournaments unusable, essentially, and issues in making the economy one where ALL good cards, not just the very best ones, are extremely rare. Ultimate team and card games have been around for a while and there is a very good reason why even a "rare" card might have dozens or even hundreds of copies in existence. When I say daily/weeklies I'm talking about the tournament scene. There's no reason to punish active players who e.g. have terrible teams by putting them in leagues with good and active players. That will and does happen anyway via the pro/rel ladder, with ghost teams at the bottom and good teams on top. Any other filtering system that doesnt attempt to sort by team quality just leads to massive talent mismatches (plus it's not as interesting from a gameplay perspective-- pro/rel ladders are a good feature of competitive leagues). It's exceedingly rare for one player to stay on a team for a very long time at the high levels, given the powercreep inherent in the game. Maybe if you're playing PT21 against a bunch of abandoned ghost teams at low levels you'll see that, but not at the cutting edge; you'll get beat down by people who keep engaged. There are lots of ways to keep PT fresh without tearing up the floors entirely. I think ideas aimed at helping that are good, but there should be some realism invoked first and think about the broader implications to the economy, collections, tournaments, big spender, F2P, and competitive scene. Many people slam their wacky pet idea down on the forums, but if it isn't realistic it is just noise. But the devs do read and listen, and good and realistic ideas do often make it in. __________________ Former leader of BFF, the definitive competitive PT group for F2P players. DM for info F2P + restrictions. First F2P winner of PT21 Perfect League F2P + restrictions. New team -> PT title in 8 weeks

04-08-2021, 02:22 PM	#11
QuantaCondor All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 560	Yeah, I would definitely recommend playing PT22 before thinking up any major ways to change it. Much is different relative to PT20, and especially getting to watch the content and league metas evolve in real time is important (and fun). __________________ Former leader of BFF, the definitive competitive PT group for F2P players. DM for info F2P + restrictions. First F2P winner of PT21 Perfect League F2P + restrictions. New team -> PT title in 8 weeks

04-08-2021, 01:45 PM	#6
orbops Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Cannon Beach, OR Posts: 65	Actually both of us are wrong on the number of teams. Down at the bottom of the Universe screen, it says there are 22362 teams. I mistakenly didn't realize that you can scroll to the right on the Universe display. With the much higher number of teams, that comes up to 559K players. Since about 1100-1400 players are used each season in MLB, that comes up to about 110K in 100 years. Revise my concept to allow players to be duplicated maybe 10 times per level. In terms of server costs or tournaments, I'm suggesting splitting up the current leagues so that maybe 75% stay on Perfect Team, and 25% are converted to new PT concepts - so those that like things the way they are don't have to change, while the other 25% can be used as a testbed of new concepts (similar to the way MLB is using the minors to try out new rules). I like your idea of rewarding those that like dailies or weeklies. I would take it a step further and put owners who access Perfect Team daily/weekly into their own leagues, and those that are once a month or longer into separate leagues. That way the non-competitive teams aren't just fodder for those owners who access daily/weekly. Ultimately, I think incorporating new suggestions from the base keeps development fresh. I don't think it's fun to see players that have been on the same team for 100 straight simulated years.

04-08-2021, 01:54 PM	#7
TrailGuideSteve Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 8	Wasn't this solved with Perfect Draft? I'm not exactly F2P, but also not throwing a ton of cash at the game. I personally would rather the focus go towards PD and tourneys to level the PT playing field. This idea would just hurt whales more than it would help F2P players.

04-08-2021, 02:18 PM	#10
orbops Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Cannon Beach, OR Posts: 65	Actually I'm only playing OOTP 20 and haven't installed v21 yet. I'll probably install it in May 2021 after the servers are shut down. My main focus to date has been historical season replays, but discovered that the historical replays have a few bugs (that may be fixed in v22).