OOTP 6.51 VS The Newer Verisons

[Melo]

I've been playing for a while and I understand the pro-6.51 crowd. It was an adjustment to get on the new, deeper format. As always, to get the depth, you have to deal with the complexity and at times, it is a lot of work. It's a personal trade off, IMO. I'll also say that I can't speak to the online aspects of the game because I solo exclusively. I don't know why the online league forums are dead. But I have a pretty good idea as to why the forums are slower overall and it's not exclusively game related. OT and Talk Sports used to be quite a bit more freewheeling and that attitude for better or worse was pretty much squashed a couple of years ago. A lot of good posters left because of other issues and haven't returned for game issues. What the exact numbers are, I don't know but I don't think the numbers are down solely because of the direction the game has taken.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Jestre

I am not trying to make this a battle of 2007/8 vs 6.5, I am just trying to point out why some of us are not pleased with 2007/8 and prefer the 6.5 model. Silvam, Neags I get that you love 2007/8 and good for you. Just understand that not all of us agree with you guys and your sales pitch isnt going to change how I feel, I have spent enough hours on 2007 to know that my opinion isnt going to change.

It may very well be that Markus has found that the 2007/8 route is by far the best way for OOTP to go for sales/marketing reasons and that is fine but if the trend of OOTP2007/8 is not as positive as expected/desired then these posts may be helpful.

P.S. I detest the "Manager Menu" just give me back the team menus that can be human or AI. that in itself would make the game much more fun for me.

I respect your point Jestre, and I'm not trying to sell the newer versions to anyone, I realize that you've tried the newer versions, and hey, it just isn't for you. no foul there.

What I am doing though is just sticking up for a game I believe to be great. Since most of the time, the people who are unhappy with something generally tend to vent more than people who are happy tend to praise.

I'm just making sure some praising gets done for, in my opinion, one of the best games I've ever played and really this game is going where I always dreamed a baseball sim would go.

cheers!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

If I owned the bar, I'd throw you out.

That's okay. My family does own a bar, and we wouldn't even let you in.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by Jestre

Here's some more fundamental differences between the OOTP2006/7/8 and 6.5'ers.... 6/7/8'ers are concerned about 73 levels of minor leagues, developing players from Burkina faso and Ulaan Baatar, VORP and BABIP...6.5ers just want to see if Ty Cobb can hit .400 the next season or Lefty Grove can win 30 next year....

Late to the party but ...

You forget though that some of us OOTP 6/7/8'ers want all of the above not just one or the other. And that's the beauty of our choice, we can have it all. Don't want minors? Drop 'em. Want 73 levels? Do it. Want foreign leagues? Make 'em. Don't? Don't make 'em. You can tailor the game to what you want it to do. Frankly I remember really enjoying 6.5 but also feeling sort of constrained by it's limitations.

I haven't tried a team or looked for players in Burkina Faso or Mongolia (you knew Ulan Baatar isn't a country but a city right?) but I have developed some nice clubs and players in Japan, the DR, Venezuela, Panama, etc. But I'm happy the game would let me try it anywhere I want while still allowing you or any of the other players on here play the game as they want.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by Jestre

It may very well be that Markus has found that the 2007/8 route is by far the best way for OOTP to go for sales/marketing reasons and that is fine but if the trend of OOTP2007/8 is not as positive as expected/desired then these posts may be helpful.

There is the only real point here, the logic of capitalism. It is a business for Markus and only he really knows (maybe Andreas) how it's going. We can guess but we don't know. All we know is that it looks like OOTP9 is going to be with the interface of 6/7/8 so Markus must feel like he's going in the right direction financially (or he's nuts, who knows?). As I said in a post on another thread, the most likely time to switch back would've been a year ago. Remember back to that point. OOTP6 was out and many hated it. People were highly skeptical about the new version and the enthusiasm levels around here were in the dumps. Cynicism was high. If Markus was going to admit the new interface was a mistake and change back "for the good of the game" that's probably when he would've done it. Instead, he stuck with it, OOTP7 was much better and many more people were happy and complaints about everything, interface included, went down. So I'd be surprised if he swung back the other way now.

Still, it's just a business. Markus has to gauge what he thinks will keep things going for him most effectively and without an inspection of his books what can we say? It obviously can't be too bad as he plans to release another version of a game that has run for quite some time in this industry, a pretty impressive feat.

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

Late to the party but ...

You forget though that some of us OOTP 6/7/8'ers want all of the above not just one or the other. And that's the beauty of our choice, we can have it all. Don't want minors? Drop 'em. Want 73 levels? Do it. Want foreign leagues? Make 'em. Don't? Don't make 'em. You can tailor the game to what you want it to do. Frankly I remember really enjoying 6.5 but also feeling sort of constrained by it's limitations.

I haven't tried a team or looked for players in Burkina Faso or Mongolia (you knew Ulan Baatar isn't a country but a city right?) but I have developed some nice clubs and players in Japan, the DR, Venezuela, Panama, etc. But I'm happy the game would let me try it anywhere I want while still allowing you or any of the other players on here play the game as they want.

Having too many choices is what has made 2006/7/8 too cumbersome, cluttered and tedious for many of us.... Why wouldnt I know that UB is a city... I only used Burkina Faso because I don't like trying to spell Ouagadougou.

[Outdors21]

I think my biggest issue with 07/8 is the user interface is just MUCH too busy. Also, I have specific complaints as well (Clicking on a players name no longer takes you to the same screen every time; it now depends on which screen you start from). I certainly feel like 6.5 is more user friendly for the more casual fan. I can understand how 07/8 has more depth and more to control, but I don't think that is necessarily a good thing when it is presented with that type of interface.

That being said...I likely will just stick with 6.5 until OOTP finds a way to include increased depth with a better/simpler/more user-friendly interface.

Also, Im starting a new 6.5 league...talent-only...if any of you 'old codgers' are interested

[Tony M]

Don't do 73 levels of minors though. You'll not be able to select all the affiliates from the drop-up menu on the team home page...

[Ragnar]

I guess I'm one of the 6.5 idiots. I tried the 2006 demo i think, or the one after, I forget. But it was a no go. I thought it was just me until i started reading through this thread. But now I see I have fellow knuckle dragging neanderthals that feel the same.

I can't put it any better than Jestre did. His statements were the reason i've stopped buying.

All I want to do is play a solo league, managing one team. Can I just use 3 levels of minors in the new version? I don't need to see their games, all I want is a notice on how they develope.

But I do agree that it should be a business decision. Whatever draws more people to the game is what counts. But if we go back to when H2H was almost put into the game, very few people seemed to care about how many more people that would have recruited. It was "I don't want it, I won't use it".

I'll probably try the demo of the new version when it comes out. See if I can get back into it.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Jestre

Having too many choices is what has made 2006/7/8 too cumbersome, cluttered and tedious for many of us.... Why wouldnt I know that UB is a city... I only used Burkina Faso because I don't like trying to spell Ouagadougou.

One of the advantages of 2007/v8 is that the customizeability also allows you to make a far *simpler* league that what you had to go with in v6.5. You want one level of minors that's managed by the computer? Easy. You don't even have to have minor leagues (although I like them for stat-generation purposes). People have the mistaken belief that 6.5 is easier not because it actually is easier but because they're used to it.

Sorry, there's a learning curve to every game. There will be a learning curve for v9 as well when it comes out. A significantly longer one for people who are still slogging through all the missteps and broken crap that was 6.5.

[darkenigma510]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

One of the advantages of 2007/v8 is that the customizeability also allows you to make a far *simpler* league that what you had to go with in v6.5. You want one level of minors that's managed by the computer? Easy. You don't even have to have minor leagues (although I like them for stat-generation purposes). People have the mistaken belief that 6.5 is easier not because it actually is easier but because they're used to it.

Sorry, there's a learning curve to every game. There will be a learning curve for v9 as well when it comes out. A significantly longer one for people who are still slogging through all the missteps and broken crap that was 6.5.

Yeah I think some people feel compelled to use all the features of OOTP 2007...they feel compelled to set up a league in Ghana simply because they can or set up a universe of 100 leagues because they can. The reality is setting up a simple small league isn't that difficult.

The user interface has improved from 2006 and hopefully will continue to get better but either way, I don't see the old UI returning simply because it could never address all the functionality of the current game.

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Sorry, there's a learning curve to every game. There will be a learning curve for v9 as well when it comes out. A significantly longer one for people who are still slogging through all the missteps and broken crap that was 6.5.

It isn't about learning curve, I got past the learning curve. I have no problem with the league setup function. It is the ingame stuff I can't get past, everything takes more time and effort. Virtually every function requires mining an extra screen or two. Simply controlling more than one team requires signing off one team and on to the other and setting up manager profiles. Then there is the information screens themselves, I find them cluttered and unappealing. I was praying that it was the learning curve, it wasn't.... I simply don't find OOTP6/7/8 enjoyable enough to play anymore. I use 6.5 for my online league and Puresim for my solo leagues. Puresim is not as advanced as 6/7/8 but Shaun is still working on it and I find the fun is still there.

Personally I find attributing "the learning curve" to those of us that don't like OOTP2006/7/8 insulting. Most of us that don't like the new versions started with OOTP2+ and love the game. I imagine we all had high hopes and expectations for the new game... to assume we just gave up because we weren't smart enough or had enough patience to "learn" to love the new game is ridiculous.

[Syd Thrift]

Strange, I run a 16-team league and all I have to do is click on a drop-down box in the upper right-hand corner of the screen to control a new team. Even without controlling I can look at players and drag and drop them between teams and lineups. I only ever need to take control of the team when I'm releasing somebody or putting them on the DL. Maybe I'm playing a different version of v2007 than you are or something.

Also, the info screens are 100% customizeable. The defaults are less cluttered than the screens v6 used and you can make them with nothing on there other than name and batting average if you wanted. I use these in my dead ball league to hide stats that teams during that time did not use or hadn't invented yet (like hitter's walks or on-base percentage).

And to top it off, 6.5 was in many ways unplayable. It was virtually impossible to get league totals to come with a mile of historical norms once Markus added DIPS. Park effects and platoon differential was busted. If you prefer Puresim now, fine (it's a good game; I switched to it after realizing how awful 6.5 was and only moved back for v2006), but let's not pretend that 6.5 was a high water mark or anything.

[jazzrack]

option overload has killed many a game title. master of Orion 3 anybody? or how about even civ 4. only the die-hard gamers like them, & the more casual gamer doesn't have the time or inclination to figure it out, they just move on to something else, sales drop and title dies. look at history, I've seen and heard all this stuff many times before

[Syd Thrift]

I don't think even the hardcore gamers liked MoO3. Civ4 is, of course, as popular as it ever was, in part because you don't have to utilize all those options and can keep everything nice and simple if you'd like.

[jazzrack]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I don't think even the hardcore gamers liked MoO3. Civ4 is, of course, as popular as it ever was, in part because you don't have to utilize all those options and can keep everything nice and simple if you'd like.

civ 4 had as many sales as they did before, but i hear many unhappy people, i went back to civ 3 and i know a large group that did the same, much like ootp2007, many bought it but many also don't use it.

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I don't think even the hardcore gamers liked MoO3. Civ4 is, of course, as popular as it ever was, in part because you don't have to utilize all those options and can keep everything nice and simple if you'd like.

I love CIV IV, it added a lot of options without sacrificing playability. Something OOTP did not achieve.