OOTP 6.51 VS The Newer Verisons

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by sporr

It's interesting that so many league commissioners are mentioning how well they like 6.5. I've found that OOTP 2007/8 is MUCH easier to manage from a commissioner point of view. Many tasks that had to be done manually in the past are handled automatically by the game. It has cut down on "maintenance" time considerably in my league.

There are many areas that are much less friendly, more obtuse etc. Finding specific pages/menus is more difficult, league setup much more intricate/tricky. Just playing a solo league and controlling more than one team is a chore, having to switch back and forth between teams rather than just having more than one team remain human controlled as in 6.5. I find implementing photos and logos more difficult than before. Many team pages just have too much info on them which makes it harder to disseminate what you are looking for etc....I could go on...

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Jestre

There are many areas that are much less friendly, more obtuse etc. Finding specific pages/menus is more difficult, league setup much more intricate/tricky. Just playing a solo league and controlling more than one team is a chore, having to switch back and forth between teams rather than just having more than one team remain human controlled as in 6.5. I find implementing photos and logos more difficult than before. Many team pages just have too much info on them which makes it harder to disseminate what you are looking for etc....I could go on...

"

[Operation Shutdown]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Last post (I promise)--

FACT:
In 2007 only 285 people have joined this forum
2006 -- 451
2005-- 330
2004 -- 739
2003 -- 1101
2002 -- 1330

Yeah, but how many of these were just LL's aliases?

Seriously though, I can fully understand both sides of the arguments being made. It takes a lot of effort to create and get into a league in the newer versions to the point that I don't like playing fictional leagues anymore. I've been around only since version 4 but since the day I picked up the game, I liked playing all of the aspects (fictional, MLB rosters, historical and online) of it equally. When 2006 came around, I only really got into playing current day roster versions of the game and it was difficult to even get into that. Since v2007 came out, I've been able to get into a couple of historical leagues, and absolutely love the MLB roster, and have joined my first online league in over two years. (I used to be a part of four sometimes five and had just started to commish a league before 2006 came out).

All in all, I think the newer version of the game is great for the major league roster game and has taken great strides in playability and depth (though I pity the roster makers). I could probably get in to fictional solo leagues, but it just takes way too much time to learn every player on every level of every team and it honestly just takes too long to setup IMO. (though I will admit i haven't tried setting up fictional in 2007, just not enough time). The online league and historical aspect of the game took huge steps back in version 2006, though I feel historical has probably gotten better than 6.5, but online leagues still lag a far bit behind 6.5. (The idea of a smaller client game for online league sounds like a great idea BTW.)

Anyway, it seems that there's mostly a clash between the people that wanted more depth and more functionality to those who wanted to keep the game simple. (IIRC, there were many arguments during the time between 6.5 and the release of 2006 between posters regarding the direction the game should take.) Personally, (like seemingly every aspect of my life) I'm split between both sides of the argument. While I really miss the simplicity of 6.5 and the ability to be in 4 online leagues while running my own solo fictional, MLB and historical leagues on the side, at the same time, if the game were to revert to 6.5, I feel like I'd really miss the depth and intricancies of the current version.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by sporr

It's interesting that so many league commissioners are mentioning how well they like 6.5. I've found that OOTP 2007/8 is MUCH easier to manage from a commissioner point of view. Many tasks that had to be done manually in the past are handled automatically by the game. It has cut down on "maintenance" time considerably in my league.

Shane, I think its safe to say that your type of league (modern/financial) would be harder to run than the fictionals/historicals/no finances leagues that some of us ran. Those types of leagues are more tedious to run in the newer version.

The newer versions were built for that type of online league and solo play.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by sporr

It's interesting that so many league commissioners are mentioning how well they like 6.5. I've found that OOTP 2007/8 is MUCH easier to manage from a commissioner point of view. Many tasks that had to be done manually in the past are handled automatically by the game. It has cut down on "maintenance" time considerably in my league.

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Shane, I think its safe to say that your type of league (modern/financial) would be harder to run than the fictionals/historicals/no finances leagues that some of us ran. Those types of leagues are more tedious to run in the newer version.

The newer versions were built for that type of online league and solo play.

Cooley, I'm confused by your reply above. Sporr says the commish part of online leagues is improved. You acknowledge that his type of league (modern/financial) is harder to run. So a harder to run league is somewhat easier to run in v2007/v8. That must be a good thing, correct?

I remember considerable pressure to improve the modern/financial type of league after v6.5. That appears to have been done, perhaps at the expense of fict/hist/no financial leagues. Is that correct? I'd like to understand this better as beta testing approaches.

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by RchW

Cooley, I'm confused by your reply above. Sporr says the commish part of online leagues is improved. You acknowledge that his type of league (modern/financial) is harder to run. So a harder to run league is somewhat easier to run in v2007/v8. That must be a good thing, correct?

I remember considerable pressure to improve the modern/financial type of league after v6.5. That appears to have been done, perhaps at the expense of fict/hist/no financial leagues. Is that correct? I'd like to understand this better as beta testing approaches.

I think Cooley is saying it is easier to run a non-financial league in 6.5 than a financial league in 2007/8. My MLBC league is non-financial and is a breeze to handle, I can't imagine v2007 would be any easier.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by RchW

Cooley, I'm confused by your reply above. Sporr says the commish part of online leagues is improved. You acknowledge that his type of league (modern/financial) is harder to run. So a harder to run league is somewhat easier to run in v2007/v8. That must be a good thing, correct?

I remember considerable pressure to improve the modern/financial type of league after v6.5. That appears to have been done, perhaps at the expense of fict/hist/no financial leagues. Is that correct? I'd like to understand this better as beta testing approaches.

A financial league most likely is easier to run in the newer version b/c of all the add ons. Those don't aid, but actually hinder a non financial league in the newer version.

I'm agreeing with Sporr that his experiences (his type of league) is most likely aided by the newer version whereas my type of league was not.............and the new version basically killed it (twice, actually).

This uber in depth game is geared to Sporr's type of league while it left those of us who just wanted the pure online league without all the bells and whistles were left by the roadside.

That's my point. Enjoy beta testing.

[SDtwin]

This thread is a very interesting read. I wonder if 2009 will do anything drastic enough to get some of the 6.5 users to try it out. I think Markus realizes that there are still people out there playing 6.5 and would love to have their input on why they are still playing it and why the 2007/8 is a turn-off. I have a good feeling that with the flexibility the newer engine gives him, and the freedom of not being with SI anymore that OOTP will be headed in a better direction for everyone.

Personally, I love 2007/8. I tried loading up 6.5 before and couldn't go back to it. I do miss the scouting reports, and setting up scouting in the newer versions is kind of a bitch, but other than that, I have no real complaints. It seems like Markus is really trying to pull a lot of stuff from 6.5 and put it back into the newer versions. We'll see what happens with OOTP 9, but hopefully he can win back some of the people stuck on 6.5

P.S. Someone should make sure Markus sees this thread

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by SDtwin

P.S. Someone should make sure Markus sees this thread

I must disagree

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by SDtwin

I wonder if 2009 will do anything drastic enough to get some of the 6.5 users to try it out.

I think Markus realizes that there are still people out there playing 6.5 and would love to have their input on why they are still playing it and why the 2007/8 is a turn-off.

We'll see what happens with OOTP 9, but hopefully he can win back some of the people stuck on 6.5

P.S. Someone should make sure Markus sees this thread

I think it all comes down to playability and 'game feel' 6.5 is eminently more easy to play and mod. The information is easier to find, the game is cleaner looking. I know, I know, most OOTP2007/8 etc would disagree but we are talking about 6.5'ers here. OOTP2006/7/8 just has too much... too much info, too many options, too much clutter on many screens. You cant even human control multiple teams without going through menu options. Their are logo options I have no idea what are for...why are there multiple logo slot options... player information is overwhelming, player editing is much more cumbersome. Bottomline and this is important, OOTP2006/7/8 is just too much work to be fun for many of us. Don't get me wrong there are many wonderful new additions like the ability to turn off player developement and use historical ratings rerated every year or 3. But the fun factor is just not that high for many of us it's just too much like work to get what we want out of the game.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Jestre

I think it all comes down to playability and 'game feel' 6.5 is imminently more easy to play and mod. The information is easier to find, the game is cleaner looking. I know, I know, most OOTP2007/8 etc would disagree but we are talking about 6.5'ers here. OOTP2006/7/8 just has too much... too much info, too many options, too much clutter on many screens. You cant even human control multiple teams without going through menu options. Their are logo options I have no idea what are for...why are there multiple logo slot options... player information is overwhelming, player editing is much more cumbersome. Bottomline and this is important, OOTP2006/7/8 is just too much work to be fun for many of us. Don't get me wrong there are many wonderful new additions like the ability to turn off player developement and use historical ratings rerated every year or 3. But the fun factor is just not that high for many of us it's just too much like work to get what we want out of the game.

You really summed it all up well. You even wrote things that are true that I hadn't even consciously thought about, but are reasons I like 6.5 better.

If we were in a bar, I'd buy you a drink.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You really summed it all up well. You even wrote things that are true that I hadn't even consciously thought about, but are reasons I like 6.5 better.

If we were in a bar, I'd buy you a drink.

If I owned the bar, I'd throw you out.

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You really summed it all up well. You even wrote things that are true that I hadn't even consciously thought about, but are reasons I like 6.5 better.

If we were in a bar, I'd buy you a drink.

Cheers!!!!

[Jestre]

Here's some more fundamental differences between the OOTP2006/7/8 and 6.5'ers.... 6/7/8'ers are concerned about 73 levels of minor leagues, developing players from Burkina faso and Ulaan Baatar, VORP and BABIP...6.5ers just want to see if Ty Cobb can hit .400 the next season or Lefty Grove can win 30 next year....

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Jestre

Here's some more fundamental differences between the OOTP2006/7/8 and 6.5'ers.... 6/7/8'ers are concerned about 73 levels of minor leagues, developing players from Burkina faso and Ulaan Baatar, VORP and BABIP...6.5ers just want to see if Ty Cobb can hit .400 the next season or Lefty Grove can win 30 next year....

Not me.

I play with the same number of minor leagues as in 6.5, except i like to actually SEE the minor league games and see all of the minor league stats/career leaderboards that are present in the new versions.

As a historical player as you seem to be, you probably are more concerned with no minor leagues, so that whole concept is foreign to you.

To me, its just another one of those "one-too-many" options that I happen to love.

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Not me.

I play with the same number of minor leagues as in 6.5, except i like to actually SEE the minor league games and see all of the minor league stats/career leaderboards that are present in the new versions.

As a historical player as you seem to be, you probably are more concerned with no minor leagues, so that whole concept is foreign to you.

To me, its just another one of those "one-too-many" options that I happen to love.

Even when I use minor leagues it is merely as a player development tool, I have no interest in their stats or the league stats.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by Jestre

Here's some more fundamental differences between the OOTP2006/7/8 and 6.5'ers.... 6/7/8'ers are concerned about 73 levels of minor leagues, developing players from Burkina faso and Ulaan Baatar, VORP and BABIP...6.5ers just want to see if Ty Cobb can hit .400 the next season or Lefty Grove can win 30 next year....

The thing is, you can do that in 8. Just shut all the other stuff off. Don't want to worry about 73 levels of minors? Don't add them! Don't want to worry about finding players in Burkina Faso and Ulaan Baatar? Turn off hidden players! If you don't want to worry about the logos, don't bother. I'm not sure you'll convince many people you can ever have too many options. Those options are what allow you to play the game exactly how you want to.

I really am struggling to see the problem regarding 8 being too complicated. If there's information overload, all of that info can go away. If you don't want a feature, just turn it off.

I can't help but see all of the 6.5 stalwarts as the old farts that say things like, "Hrumph!! These youngin's with their computers, nowadays. Why's everything gotta be on a computer! Sure isn't like the old days!"

Bottom line, computers make our lives better... and so does OOTP 8.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Neags23

The thing is, you can do that in 8. Just shut all the other stuff off. Don't want to worry about 73 levels of minors? Don't add them! Don't want to worry about finding players in Burkina Faso and Ulaan Baatar? Turn off hidden players! If you don't want to worry about the logos, don't bother. I'm not sure you'll convince many people you can ever have too many options. Those options are what allow you to play the game exactly how you want to.

I really am struggling to see the problem regarding 8 being too complicated. If there's information overload, all of that info can go away. If you don't want a feature, just turn it off.

I can't help but see all of the 6.5 stalwarts as the old farts that say things like, "Hrumph!! These youngin's with their computers, nowadays. Why's everything gotta be on a computer! Sure isn't like the old days!"

Bottom line, computers make our lives better... and so does OOTP 8.

Yay!

Not to mention that most of these features/options in the new versions are here as a result of requests by many long time supporters of the game (and people who loved 6.5, including myself) Its not like Markus just went against the grain and added everything against everyone's wishes.

For that reason, I refuse to believe that the people who are complaining about complexity with 2006,2007/8 and are steadfastly sticking with 6.5 are the majority, and also refuse to believe those who are predicting doom and gloom unless the game goes back to a simpler 6.5 format.

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by Neags23

The thing is, you can do that in 8. Just shut all the other stuff off. Don't want to worry about 73 levels of minors? Don't add them! Don't want to worry about finding players in Burkina Faso and Ulaan Baatar? Turn off hidden players! If you don't want to worry about the logos, don't bother. I'm not sure you'll convince many people you can ever have too many options. Those options are what allow you to play the game exactly how you want to.

I really am struggling to see the problem regarding 8 being too complicated. If there's information overload, all of that info can go away. If you don't want a feature, just turn it off.

I can't help but see all of the 6.5 stalwarts as the old farts that say things like, "Hrumph!! These youngin's with their computers, nowadays. Why's everything gotta be on a computer! Sure isn't like the old days!"

Bottom line, computers make our lives better... and so does OOTP 8.

Sure I have played OOTP2007 and turned off all the stuff I didnt want. I am still left with cluttered screens, having to menu through several screens to do what used to be available on one screen, finding it more difficult to use what logo's I use and what photos I use. Editing players is more difficult. Controlling more than one team is a chore now. Just setting team lineups and rotations seem like a chore with 2007/8. I know there is vast amounts of customization allowed and there is tons of new bells and whistles but game play and fun for many of us has been the cost.

[Jestre]

I am not trying to make this a battle of 2007/8 vs 6.5, I am just trying to point out why some of us are not pleased with 2007/8 and prefer the 6.5 model. Silvam, Neags I get that you love 2007/8 and good for you. Just understand that not all of us agree with you guys and your sales pitch isnt going to change how I feel, I have spent enough hours on 2007 to know that my opinion isnt going to change.

It may very well be that Markus has found that the 2007/8 route is by far the best way for OOTP to go for sales/marketing reasons and that is fine but if the trend of OOTP2007/8 is not as positive as expected/desired then these posts may be helpful.

P.S. I detest the "Manager Menu" just give me back the team menus that can be human or AI. The whole manager dynamic that OOTP2006/7 uses makes things so much more work than before, that in itself would make the game much more fun for me.