Catcher ability in OOTP 13

[endgame]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I take this on faith. If John Dewan says this, I scoff. However, if Markus believes it, so do I!

My question is, is there anyplace where we will see this framing ability quantified or is it contained only within the overall catching ability rating?

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Still looking for the answer to this one. Anybody know?

Currently, I think this is best answer we can deliver:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The game uses the "catcher ability" rating to determine framing skills and adjusts the number of simulated balls / strikes / BBs / Ks accordingly.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Still looking for the answer to this one. Anybody know?

I don't know, but I read it as it is factored into the catching ability rating. As a fictional player, I don't think this affects anything since the players don't exist. I can't imagine a catcher's framing ability having that profound an effect on the game as people usually worry about whenever something new is introduced (is it really new though if it using an existing rating?)

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by awick

Wow! Really? And is this where Markus "breaks the game"?

This change sounds like a very positive one to me and my experience with OOTP has shown me that changes in the game are thoughtful, well-intentioned, well-managed, and regularly enhance my gaming experience.

I recognize that not every change works perfectly from day one, but that doesn't alter my overall very positive experience. And when problems do arise I really appriciate the way they are generally addressed.

my comment was sarcastic that was why i used the sarcastic smiley

[The Wolf]

LOL on the projections by the overreactors that I'm the one overreacting instead of them. I've just been laughing the whole time, because some of the reactions have been really funny.

Needed new features should be received with joy, not caution and anxiety. This will be a great addition to the game, but you'd never know it from the overreactions here.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by silvam14

While it seems that Markus, as usual has put thought into adding the little things to the sim engine, I don't see how this could or could not potentially break the game.

How dare you rain on their anxiety parade with common sense!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Are you working for the British government lol?

BBC News - But they said "don't panic"

Keep calm and play on!

[Marinersfan51]

This change ruins the game for me

[Marinersfan51]

because I have to wait a whole week to play with it

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

How dare you rain on their anxiety parade with common sense!

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3285644

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by awick

Wow! Really? And is this where Markus "breaks the game"?

This change sounds like a very positive one to me and my experience with OOTP has shown me that changes in the game are thoughtful, well-intentioned, well-managed, and regularly enhance my gaming experience.

I recognize that not every change works perfectly from day one, but that doesn't alter my overall very positive experience. And when problems do arise I really appriciate the way they are generally addressed.

I took the post as a tongue-in-cheek allusion to the usual reaction to any problems with the game in the first few days following release.

[awick]

Guess that went right over my head... Sorry 'bout that.

[boshk]

while on the topic in the realm of defensive abilities. i was wondering if there could be a change in the defensive arm ratings. if you had a good arm in the outfield, would that not stand to reason you would have a good arm in the infield? with the accuracy of said arm being augmented by the defensive ability at the position? i've always found it kind of annoying that someone could have, say, a rating of 200 in the infield, at 3B for example, but then a rating of 0 or another low number in the outfield. would it not stand to reason if someone had a cannon at 3B, they would still have a cannon in RF?

[hfield007]

If they fix anything on defense make it so that someone who wins 3 straight gold gloves at SS to start his career (all the while posting near MVP offense numbers) doesn't get sent to 3B and 2B over the next four years (winning more GG) and than 1B at 30 with almost no change at all in defensive ratings and people with worse ones starting at short and second.

The defensive infield rotation that happens year to year on teams in fictional is unbearable. It's beyond unrealistic to watch unfold each season. Chase Utley with horrible knees is still set to play second when he returns this year... in a fictional OOTP universe he would have played first and third by now in his career probably. Not enough people are known for a certain spot on the field like in real life.

Added to that in my fictional every team seems to have a rotation at first base (when i pick GG at the end of the year maybe 6 of the 16 teams total have someone who played 100+ games at 1B). I don't get why full-time career 1B don't get created in my fictionals where they are 1B all their career who have a lot of pop in the bat.

[DaddyO]

Originally Posted by DustinthePOWERHOUSE

Awesome, that name is like a hangnail. Painful and you want to get rid of it but you just can't.

And I'm not even an M's fan.

The feature seems neat. I never really properly evaluated catchers in the game (really just went for the good caught stealing percentage which was how someone told me I should do it) but this seems to be a step forward in helping people like me learn how to properly evaluate them.

Cool idea, haven't read the article yet though.

Agreed, and I AM an M's fan. Miguel Olivo, current catcher of the M's for now, is a really interesting example. It's hard to escape his positive impact on the pitching staff. Despite his horrid knack for allowing passed balls, his CERA over time indicates the staff ERA is (IIRC) a half-a-run lower when he's behind the plate. One has to assume there's things he's doing better than some other catchers. Coaches and pitchers say they like the way he works with the pitchers.

[turkeybird86]

Originally Posted by hfield007

If they fix anything on defense make it so that someone who wins 3 straight gold gloves at SS to start his career (all the while posting near MVP offense numbers) doesn't get sent to 3B and 2B over the next four years (winning more GG) and than 1B at 30 with almost no change at all in defensive ratings and people with worse ones starting at short and second.

The defensive infield rotation that happens year to year on teams in fictional is unbearable. It's beyond unrealistic to watch unfold each season. Chase Utley with horrible knees is still set to play second when he returns this year... in a fictional OOTP universe he would have played first and third by now in his career probably. Not enough people are known for a certain spot on the field like in real life.

Added to that in my fictional every team seems to have a rotation at first base (when i pick GG at the end of the year maybe 6 of the 16 teams total have someone who played 100+ games at 1B). I don't get why full-time career 1B don't get created in my fictionals where they are 1B all their career who have a lot of pop in the bat.

Pretty sure this was discussed in length on another topic and has been addressed. why is everybody good at 1b

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I don't know, but I read it as it is factored into the catching ability rating.

See, this concerns me a bit, especially since MH glossed over my question when he was in one of his multi-answering moods (He answered guys before and after me, but did I take it personally? Hell, yes! )

Wolf's right about not overreacting about this new feature; I'm sure MH and crew will handle it fine. I would just like to see some indication of this ability someplace. I mean, how do I know which catchers have good or bad pitch-framing capability? (I usually play fictional).

[Buane]

I don't have any problem with this being a new feature, I think it's never a bad practice to add new dimensions to the game. I also appreciate Markus keeping up with active statistical research and working to incorporate that into the newer versions. But it sounds like this will be yet another in a long line of features added to OOTP...with no way to toggle their effect off.

I won't even get into a pointless discussion about whether or not the data is good/not good, whether the sample size was too small/sufficient. To me, that is not the issue here.

What IS the issue, is that there are a lot of imperfect qualities about real-world major league baseball that are not necessarily worth emulating just because they are part of real-world baseball. Bad umpires being "tricked" by catchers into calling balls strikes and vice versa is a pretty silly thing to force upon all OOTP leagues. I don't like that part of the sport. I don't want my OOTP league to incorporate that part of the sport. There's nothing in the baseball rulebook that specifies umpires will call balls and strikes based on where the catcher's mitt is when the ball is caught. It's a flaw! Maybe it's a flaw that we can't do anything about in reality, maybe it's even a flaw some of us look upon as part of the flavor of the game, the "human element", etc...but it's a flaw.

I think there are certainly some people who will appreciate the added realism, and they have every reason to be happy this feature has been added - doubly so if the research being done is accurate and noteworthy. However, just because it's what happens in real-life doesn't mean it's what I want happening in my league.

I'm hoping it will come with a toggle switch. I think we can ALL agree there is absolutely nothing wrong with providing OOTP more flexibility in league creation. Isn't that one of the basic tenants that OOTP was created on? Playing the game your way?

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

See, this concerns me a bit, especially since MH glossed over my question when he was in one of his multi-answering moods (He answered guys before and after me, but did I take it personally? Hell, yes! )

Wolf's right about not overreacting about this new feature; I'm sure MH and crew will handle it fine. I would just like to see some indication of this ability someplace. I mean, how do I know which catchers have good or bad pitch-framing capability? (I usually play fictional).

I see what you mean.

It's sort of an issue now, though, isn't it?? The current Catcher Ability rating includes things like fielding bunts, allowing passed balls, preventing wild pitches, etc. Looking at it now, we see one number but we can't be sure which catcher is necessarily good at quickness, and gets out from behind the plate before the batter is out of the box and throws out the attempted bunt by 20 feet. Or maybe he's big, and strong, and oblivious to pain and almost never, ever, ever let's a ball, or a baserunner when blocking the plate, get by him.

You know?? We can't really be sure what catchers do those things well either, so I guess this will be one more "piece" of overall catcher ability that we may not be able to separate out.

I think framing pitches is possibly such an important aspect that it would be nice to have it as a separate rating since that affects way more pitches than the other abilities do. But if it's not, I'll just assume, like I do now, that a catcher rated 15 means the game believes he's more valuable overall, to me as a catcher considering all of those abilities than one rated 10, even though the one rated 10 may be better at one of those things (including framing pitches).

I dunno, sorry, I know I didn't answer your question, was just throwing in my thoughts I guess.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I would just like to see some indication of this ability someplace. I mean, how do I know which catchers have good or bad pitch-framing capability? (I usually play fictional).

I agree. If it is just an adjustment to real life catcher's rating based on this new research, then obviously that research does not apply to fictional catchers so Its probably an out of sight, out of mind thing for us fictional players.

Maybe when markus adds 3d graphics next year, we'll be able to see the catcher frame the pitches and the ability would become more clear to those who care that deeply about this.

[PSUColonel]

To me this is a very welcome addition