Catcher ability in OOTP 13

[jbergey22]

1.Stanton (FLA)2.1
Lee (HOU)2.1 3.Young (ARI)1.8 4.Denorfia (SDP)1.7
Infante (FLA)1.7
Ankiel (WSN)1.7 7.Fukudome (CHC)1.6 8.Barmes (HOU)1.5
Sandoval (SFG)1.5 10.Bourn (2TM)1.4
Gomez (MIL)1.4
Bourgeois (HOU)1.4

Those are the defensive WAR leaders in the NL last year. This is kind of why it seems exaggerated. Some of these catchers would instantly jump ahead and almost double some of the best fielders in the league just based on framing pitches.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

How do you reconcile those two ideas? That it may need some revision down the road, but it has to be in OOTP right now?

Oh, that really made me laugh. Features should only be added to OOTP if they are eternally perfect right from the beginning and never, ever need to be revised? Awesomely funny.

I've seen a lot of things added to OOTP that should have been in it that later on needed a little revision here and there. DIPS, for instance. You have yourself as well if you think about it.

If I were in Markus' shoes, this would have been put in a couple of years ago and it would be revised as appropriate.

[tigey75]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

How do you reconcile those two ideas? That it may need some revision down the road, but it has to be in OOTP right now? I don't really have a problem with a toned-down, very conservative estimate of framing being incorporated now, but diving right in and giving Jose Molina a +30 framing rating (and the inevitable fictional catcher who gets generated with a +50 or +60) just opens Markus up to looking back from 2017 thinking "Wow, that was a little over-the-top. Maybe I should have held off before giving Molina's pitch framing abilities more value than Mark Teixeira's entire season"

But I guess it also gives him a feature tagline for a couple versions down the road: "Now with a far more accurate catcher framing model!"

I hate when people quote a post just to say how awesome it was, but...this is awesome.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by tigey75

I hate when people quote a post just to say how awesome it was, but...this is awesome.

It was awesomely funny.

[Pacoheadley]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

How do you reconcile those two ideas? That it may need some revision down the road, but it has to be in OOTP right now? I don't really have a problem with a toned-down, very conservative estimate of framing being incorporated now, but diving right in and giving Jose Molina a +30 framing rating (and the inevitable fictional catcher who gets generated with a +50 or +60) just opens Markus up to looking back from 2017 thinking "Wow, that was a little over-the-top. Maybe I should have held off before giving Molina's pitch framing abilities more value than Mark Teixeira's entire season"

But I guess it also gives him a feature tagline for a couple versions down the road: "Now with a far more accurate catcher framing model!"

He has already said in this thread that he is going to regress the results from the study some, the top catchers are not going to be worth 3 wins. He acknowledged that Molina is an outlier.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by statfreak

You do realize no one is arguing with you or has actually said they didn't believe framing exists or that it shouldn't be in OOTP?!?

I remember someone asking for a switch so he could turn it off. That wouldn't have been you, would it?

[The Wolf]

This is a miniature version of the old DIPS argument. Catcher effects in OOTP is a brand new thing, and it seems to be making people really uneasy, uncomfortable, and afraid.

"But...there's no telling what might happen! There could be supercatchers!"

I give you Wolf's Law: for every significant change Markus makes, there is an overreaction.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Pacoheadley

He has already said in this thread that he is going to regress the results from the study some, the top catchers are not going to be worth 3 wins. He acknowledged that Molina is an outlier.

Now don't go confusing the panic with facts.

[The Wolf]

“A good catcher is the quarterback, the carburetor, the lead dog, the pulse taker, the traffic cop and sometimes a lot of unprintable things, but no team gets very far without one.” - Miller Huggins, whose Yankees won six American League pennants and three World Series championships

And now it'll be more that way in OOTP, too. Good job, Markus.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Now don't go confusing the panic with facts.

Wolf, it feels like you've been reading the thread backwards. In my view, it's progressed like this:

Markus: New feature!

Some people: Wait, is that too extreme?

Markus: No, we're not going that far!

Wolf: I don't understand the controversy! Can't people read where Markus wrote it's not going to be that extreme?

Some people: No, we understand that, we think some caution is deserved.

Wolf: Can't people read where Markus wrote that it's not going to be that extreme??

And so on.

I think everyone is basically satisfied and the conversation is mostly now about you trying to say that any amount of apprehension was unjustified, when that's clearly not the case, as even Markus and at least one author of the studies in question seem to admit.

[tigey75]

Well the Wolf makes some good points, but the cautious crowd makes some as well. I suppose we'll have to take a wait and see approach. As long as the game somehow works in how completely over rated Jorge Posada was during his prime, I shall be happy......stirring pot

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I remember someone asking for a switch so he could turn it off. That wouldn't have been you, would it?

Yes, I asked if it could be toggled off. I did not express support or opposition in my question. I followed it up after JWay assumed I didn't want the feature by saying I'm all for it, but would like to have some control in case I don't agree with how Markus implemented it. I've been around since before OOTP2 was released and I can say with 100% certainty new features don't always work as expected and I don't always agree with how Markus implements new features. The more control we can have over the game engine, the better the experience for everyone.

It is quite obvious to me you don't care to have any actual discussion and are only interested in trying to shout down the people you think are disagreeing with you (when in fact, no one is). Otherwise you would have actually read my posts and known I never disagreed with the feature nor framing's existence in the real world.

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

This is a miniature version of the old DIPS argument. Catcher effects in OOTP is a brand new thing, and it seems to be making people really uneasy, uncomfortable, and afraid.

"But...there's no telling what might happen! There could be supercatchers!"

I give you Wolf's Law: for every significant change Markus makes, there is an overreaction.

Here's statfreak's law: the only one overreacting is The Wolf.

The rest of us are trying to have a very civil discussion while hoping Markus will jump back in with more details. You, on the other hand, are only interested in making wild (and completely baseless and false) statements that people don't like the feature and can't fathom the existence of framing in either the real world or OOTP.

Please feel free to continue to be Chicken Little. I'll continue to read along and respond to those that are actually contributing some worth to the thread, but won't bother responding to you again.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Now don't go confusing the panic with facts.

Are you working for the British government lol?

BBC News - But they said "don't panic"

[snepp]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I give you Wolf's Law: for every significant change Markus makes, there is an overreaction.

There's only one person doing any overreacting in this thread.

[oman19]

Silvam jinxed us with this thread.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-then-now.html

[OutS|der]

really was only a matter of time before Markus breaks the game like he seems to do every year.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

My question is, is there anyplace where we will see this framing ability quantified or is it contained only within the overall catching ability rating?

Still looking for the answer to this one. Anybody know?

[awick]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

really was only a matter of time before Markus breaks the game like he seems to do every year.

Wow! Really? And is this where Markus "breaks the game"?

This change sounds like a very positive one to me and my experience with OOTP has shown me that changes in the game are thoughtful, well-intentioned, well-managed, and regularly enhance my gaming experience.

I recognize that not every change works perfectly from day one, but that doesn't alter my overall very positive experience. And when problems do arise I really appriciate the way they are generally addressed.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by oman19

Silvam jinxed us with this thread.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-then-now.html

While it seems that Markus, as usual has put thought into adding the little things to the sim engine, I don't see how this could or could not potentially break the game. I sit here watching the post count go up in this thread and I can't believe it is this high.