Report: Steve Nash wins 2nd straight NBA MVP - Page 5

darkhorse · 04-27-2006, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Man, he's already averaging 30/7/7 and would be a junior in college right now. How freaking good is he going to be? I can't believe I am actually saying this about anyone, but he could well be better than Jordan once he peaks.

At respective points in their careers, LeBron is light years ahead of Jordan in accomplishment.

sean-patin · 04-27-2006, 12:12 AM

Nash deserves to win probably just for his leadership. A lot of the other MVP candidates don't contribute as much to their teams wins, even though I would say that most of the others are better players overall.

darkhorse · 04-27-2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twins15

I had Billups 6th, and I think Duncan was hampered a bit by injuries to be a legitimate MVP threat this year.

Really, you can't cast a MVP ballot for someone named Chauncey. Ain't happenin'.

kq76 · 04-27-2006, 01:03 AM

I think the MVP award is a joke and find that it's usually rather silly to argue the choice.

Even if you could say, "well, without player X team Y would have Z less wins", which you can't, you're still not taking into consideration that those # of wins really depends on how good the teammates are as well. If you put a great player on an awful team, he should help that team a lot more than he would a team that is great without him. See the law of diminishing returns and all that. Should a great player on a great team really be penalized for the great quality of his teammates? If you do, the MVP award becomes a joke.

On top of that, you have to consider how much better a player makes his teammates, which you can't really measure either. There, you're awarding the player for the ability of his teammates to be better depending on who they play with, though, which has a problem similar to the above. But surely you should give some credit to a player who makes his teammates better when some other players have much less positive effect on their teammates.

I could see arguing that Kobe Bryant is a more valuable player than say Raja Bell because the difference between those two is ridiculously obvious, but I don't think you can really say who is more valuable between players who are much closer in value. As long as they give it to one of the best few players in the league, I can't argue with it.

Russ · 04-27-2006, 03:14 AM

Also, I watched the game and thought Nash played like crap tonight.

Gorilla Shakespeare · 04-27-2006, 03:24 AM

Let me explain why Kobe is a "gunner":

NOBODY ELSE ON THE LAKERS CAN SHOOT. Okay, Odom kind of. But literally, show me a legitimate 10ppg scorer on the Lakers outside of those two. Who would average 10 points a night - just 10 - on any other playoff-bound team. Smush Parker is a legitimate NBA backup point guard. Chris Mihm? Don't make me laugh.

If I were Phil Jackson, I'd pretty much have no choice but to funnel the ball through Kobe each and every play. A case can be made that much of this is his own fault, what with running Shaq out of town and all. However, as a percentage of his team, the only people I see coming close are Lebron and maybe Kevin Garnett.

mlyons · 04-27-2006, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla Shakespeare

If I were Phil Jackson, I'd pretty much have no choice but to funnel the ball through Kobe each and every play. A case can be made that much of this is his own fault, what with running Shaq out of town and all. However, as a percentage of his team, the only people I see coming close are Lebron and maybe Kevin Garnett.

Allen Iverson?

NOTE: Not an endorsement of Iverson as a potential MVP candidate, just someone whose team completely relies on his offense.

KurtBevacqua · 04-27-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean-patin

Nash deserves to win probably just for his leadership. A lot of the other MVP candidates don't contribute as much to their teams wins, even though I would say that most of the others are better players overall.

Been discussed already, but if you look at Phoenix without Nash and match its talent up against LA without Kobe or Cleveland without LeBron and its not even close. Phoenix would at least still be decent without Nash while Cleveland and LA would be certain cellar dwellars. No way Nash contributes more to how well his team does than the other two. LA and Cleveland have nothing without their guys.

Dagrims · 04-27-2006, 11:18 AM

The NBA should expand the award to have an Eastern Conference MVP and a Western Conference MVP.

jmaness84 · 04-27-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

In addition to Kobe and LeBron, I'd take Wade and Duncan over Nash. Sorry guys, but I just don't see Nash in the same category as those other guys. I think as far as PG's go, John Stockton was better than Nash, but he never got any real consideration for MVP. And yet Nash now has two on the shelf. I feel like I'm just not grasping something here.

Nash did not have to compete with MJ, Hakeem, David Robinson... players like that. The best way I've heard it explained is that he won the award last year and had a better year this year than last. Not to mention he didn't have as good of players surrounding him as he did last year. Q. Richardson, Joe Johnson, and Amarie Stoudamire did not play on this years team.

blgoblue2 · 04-27-2006, 05:02 PM

Where is the love for Billups

1) Chauncey
2) LeBron
3) Kobe
4) Dirk
5) Everyone else

His Own Bad Self · 04-27-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blgoblue2

Where is the love for Billups

1) Chauncey
2) LeBron
3) Kobe
4) Dirk
5) Everyone else

The love for Billups is diminished because he plays with three other All-Star-caliber players who are arguably as important to the team as he is.

JDOldSchool · 04-27-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdawgsenior

The love for Billups is diminished because he plays with three other All-Star-caliber players who are arguably as important to the team as he is.

Sure, but Steve Nash isn't the best player on his team, either.

Gorilla Shakespeare · 04-28-2006, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

Allen Iverson?

NOTE: Not an endorsement of Iverson as a potential MVP candidate, just someone whose team completely relies on his offense.

Iverson's a good point. IMO he's even more responsible than Kobe for not having a team around him though.

TonyJ · 05-17-2006, 08:47 PM

Steve Nash the MVP? ****, he's been outplayed by Sam Freaking Cassell this series and last night he almost single handedly have the Clippers the game. Easily the most overrated player in the NBA right now. He's not even the best player on his own team, even with Stoudamire injured.

05-17-2006, 09:08 PM

The MVP is for the regular season.

Dougiestyle · 05-17-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Steve Nash the MVP? ****, he's been outplayed by Sam Freaking Cassell this series and last night he almost single handedly have the Clippers the game. Easily the most overrated player in the NBA right now. He's not even the best player on his own team, even with Stoudamire injured.

Oh dear Lord.

boilermaker · 05-17-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Steve Nash Calls Second Consecutive MVP Award 'Some Sick Kind of Joke'.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48407

marc · 05-17-2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boilermaker

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48407

roffle

TonyJ · 05-18-2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

The MVP is for the regular season.

Really?

In all seriousness though, Nash has been exposed this post-season.

04-27-2006, 01:03 AM	#84
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,994	I think the MVP award is a joke and find that it's usually rather silly to argue the choice. Even if you could say, "well, without player X team Y would have Z less wins", which you can't, you're still not taking into consideration that those # of wins really depends on how good the teammates are as well. If you put a great player on an awful team, he should help that team a lot more than he would a team that is great without him. See the law of diminishing returns and all that. Should a great player on a great team really be penalized for the great quality of his teammates? If you do, the MVP award becomes a joke. On top of that, you have to consider how much better a player makes his teammates, which you can't really measure either. There, you're awarding the player for the ability of his teammates to be better depending on who they play with, though, which has a problem similar to the above. But surely you should give some credit to a player who makes his teammates better when some other players have much less positive effect on their teammates. I could see arguing that Kobe Bryant is a more valuable player than say Raja Bell because the difference between those two is ridiculously obvious, but I don't think you can really say who is more valuable between players who are much closer in value. As long as they give it to one of the best few players in the league, I can't argue with it. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

04-27-2006, 03:14 AM	#85
Russ All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Essex HON! Posts: 1,923 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Also, I watched the game and thought Nash played like crap tonight. __________________ If you don't love Russ, you don't love America. This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

04-27-2006, 11:18 AM	#89
Dagrims Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,827	The NBA should expand the award to have an Eastern Conference MVP and a Western Conference MVP. __________________ "Read books, get brain."

05-17-2006, 08:47 PM	#95
TonyJ Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Gassin' Kurds Posts: 2,019	Steve Nash the MVP? ****, he's been outplayed by Sam Freaking Cassell this series and last night he almost single handedly have the Clippers the game. Easily the most overrated player in the NBA right now. He's not even the best player on his own team, even with Stoudamire injured. __________________ My Podcasts: Talk Democratic Dysfunction Name Two Bands with Andy and Andy

04-27-2006, 12:12 AM	#82
sean-patin Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 205	Nash deserves to win probably just for his leadership. A lot of the other MVP candidates don't contribute as much to their teams wins, even though I would say that most of the others are better players overall.

04-27-2006, 03:24 AM	#86
Gorilla Shakespeare Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 405	Let me explain why Kobe is a "gunner": NOBODY ELSE ON THE LAKERS CAN SHOOT. Okay, Odom kind of. But literally, show me a legitimate 10ppg scorer on the Lakers outside of those two. Who would average 10 points a night - just 10 - on any other playoff-bound team. Smush Parker is a legitimate NBA backup point guard. Chris Mihm? Don't make me laugh. If I were Phil Jackson, I'd pretty much have no choice but to funnel the ball through Kobe each and every play. A case can be made that much of this is his own fault, what with running Shaq out of town and all. However, as a percentage of his team, the only people I see coming close are Lebron and maybe Kevin Garnett.

04-27-2006, 05:02 PM	#91
blgoblue2 Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Walled Lake, Michigan Member #13775 Posts: 886	Where is the love for Billups 1) Chauncey 2) LeBron 3) Kobe 4) Dirk 5) Everyone else

05-17-2006, 09:08 PM	#96
Yyzlin Guest Posts: n/a	The MVP is for the regular season.