Armando Galarraga has a Perfect Game stolen from him by an ump - Page 4

Cooleyvol · 06-03-2010, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autism Speaks

MLB deciding whether to review blown call that costs Armando Galarraga of Detroit Tigers perfect game - ESPN

I agree with the assertions about Galarraga's character.

MLB is reviewing it and Selig could overrule the ump...if there's justice, this kid should get his perfect game.

Slippery slope.

cephasjames · 06-03-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autism Speaks

MLB deciding whether to review blown call that costs Armando Galarraga of Detroit Tigers perfect game - ESPN

Quote:

Galarraga bitterly sipped a beer minutes after the blown call negated his place in baseball history. An apology and hug changed his attitude after Joyce, in tears, asked for a chance to apologize after the Tigers beat the Indians 3-0.

"You don't see an umpire after the game come out and say, 'Hey, let me tell you I'm sorry," Galarraga said. "He felt really bad. He didn't even shower."

Wow!! Talk about feeling bad about the call.

David Watts · 06-03-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autism Speaks

MLB deciding whether to review blown call that costs Armando Galarraga of Detroit Tigers perfect game - ESPN

I agree with the assertions about Galarraga's character.

MLB is reviewing it and Selig could overrule the ump...if there's justice, this kid should get his perfect game.

Lifelong Tiger fan, but I really hope Bud doesn't do this.

jaxmagicman · 06-03-2010, 01:04 PM

I hate slippery slope arguments. It is easy to not make it a slippery slope. Say this is the exception and any time another person has a perfect game taken away by a call that the umpire admits is wrong then we can overturn that as well. And that is it.

CommishJoe · 06-03-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I hate slippery slope arguments. It is easy to not make it a slippery slope. Say this is the exception and any time another person has a perfect game taken away by a call that the umpire admits is wrong then we can overturn that as well. And that is it.

So, that bad call has to happen on the 26th out? What if it was on the 1st call and he set down the following 27 batters?

There are no rules allowing Bud to overturn this call, so he shouldn't. If anything, improve your instant replay rules to allow this kind of call to be challenged.

Cooleyvol · 06-03-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I hate slippery slope arguments. It is easy to not make it a slippery slope. Say this is the exception and any time another person has a perfect game taken away by a call that the umpire admits is wrong then we can overturn that as well. And that is it.

Yeah and the list of 'exceptions' would grow incredibly as we went along until the list of exceptions was larger than the actual rule book.

There's no opening for Bud to change this. Its a part of baseball (bad calls) and should be left that way. Umps are human and the game should be left that way. Would we be having this conversation if the bad call was with one out in the fifth? I hate it for the guy, but this is a part of baseball and helps make baseball the game it is.

Cooleyvol · 06-03-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

So, that bad call has to happen on the 26th out? What if it was on the 1st call and he set down the following 27 batters?

That'd have to be in the exceptions!

Erik W. · 06-03-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwburke94

What the heck... Jim Joyce is the second-worst umpire in MLB.

No, he isn't. He's a very good umpire who made a bad call at the worst possible time.

Tony M · 06-03-2010, 01:26 PM

Were all of the pitches that Galarraga threw for called strikes in the strike zone? Just wondering...

jaxmagicman · 06-03-2010, 01:26 PM

If you don't think it should ever be done, that is fine. I am in that boat. But to say it shouldn't be done because of a slippery slope argument is what I don't like. If what happened last night is the only exception, then there is no slippery slope.

Cooleyvol · 06-03-2010, 01:31 PM

It IS a slippery slope, jax.

Change this and anyone who's hit a HR ruled not so in the past has every right to come forward with tape evidence and ask that it be changed. That changes outcomes of games possibly, pitcher's records, save tallies, standings, possibly division titles/wildcard berths, playoff matchups, LCS matchups, outcomes, WS matchups......etc.

Not to mention balls and strikes, phantom tags at second on a DP, ..........etc.

There's no ending point.

The guy didnt throw a perfect game. It was umped on the field not to be a perfect game. End of story. It doesnt make me against the pitcher, but FOR the game of baseball as a whole.

edm · 06-03-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

If you don't think it should ever be done, that is fine. I am in that boat. But to say it shouldn't be done because of a slippery slope argument is what I don't like. If what happened last night is the only exception, then there is no slippery slope.

I know what you are saying, but even if it is the only time it happens, doing it still creates a precedence. People will refer to it whenever they think they got screwed on a bad call.

jaxmagicman · 06-03-2010, 01:36 PM

But this play doesn't change the outcome of the game at all.

That can be the line. If it is the 27th out and it doesn't change the outcome of the game, we can review it. If it doesn't meet that situation we will not make a change.

jaxmagicman · 06-03-2010, 01:38 PM

Btw, I am in the camp of not making the change. I just don't think it is a slippery slope.

Tony M · 06-03-2010, 01:38 PM

If Selig is stupid enough to overturn this call, what will happen to Crowe's at bat? Will it be expunged from the record? Would Brandon Inge get an assist removed?

kq76 · 06-03-2010, 01:40 PM

I found this interesting:

Quote:

In 1991, a panel headed by then-commissioner Fay Vincent took a look at the record book and decided to throw out 50 no-hitters for various reasons.

MLB deciding whether to review blown call that costs Armando Galarraga of Detroit Tigers perfect game - ESPN

With precedent in throwing out no-hitters I think that opens a window into throwing in a perfect game. Besides, Selig could just call it for the betterment of the game. I think they should just throw it in with an asterisk or footnote. I don't think there's any shame in just mentioning it. Sure, there might have been a case of another perfect game in MLB history had it not been for a blown call (probably much earlier in the game) and it's too bad that game isn't mentioned too, but I don't think that should mean you shouldn't mention this one either.

RchW · 06-03-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

If you believe bad umpiring calls should be reversed, then there still have been only two perfect games thrown this year.

Why? Because Halladay threw ball four, not once, but twice (at least, from the TV recap that I watched) during his game. The ump called both pitches strikes, and the batter later made out.

If you reverse the Joyce call, you absolutely must reverse the poor ball-strike calls that enabled Halladay to go into the record books.

Sorry, boys, you can't have it both ways. It is either human imperfection or machine perfection. No cherry picking. That is the worst of situations.

Well said.

Tell me this honestly, if the call had been out but the batter was obviously safe, would all of you calling for this to be reversed be of the same opinion? I very much doubt it.

CD1083 · 06-03-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Sure, there might have been a case of another perfect game in MLB history had it not been for a blown call (probably much earlier in the game) and it's too bad that game isn't mentioned too, but I don't think that should mean you shouldn't mention this one either.

Via Wiki ~ Perfect games spoiled by the 27th batter

Quote:

On September 2, 1972, Milt Pappas of the Chicago Cubs walked San Diego Padres pinch hitter Larry Stahl on a borderline 3–2 pitch. Pappas finished with a no-hitter. The umpire, Bruce Froemming, was in his second year; he went on to a 37-year career in which he umpired a record 11 no-hitters. Pappas believed he had struck out Stahl, and years later continued to bear ill will toward Froemming.

Cooleyvol · 06-03-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Well said.

Tell me this honestly, if the call had been out but the batter was obviously safe, would all of you calling for this to be reversed be of the same opinion? I very much doubt it.

That answer is emphatically NO. No one would be calling for the reversal. That, alone, tells me Bud should leave this alone. Its stat padding if he does. Plain and simple.

Le Grande Orange · 06-03-2010, 02:26 PM

Well, having watched the video of the play, I think it was a lot closer than many of you are giving it credit for. In live action it looked like a very close play to me.

One of the still photos I've seen shows the runner being out by a step. But, in that photo you can still see the ball. Seems to me the ball simply reaching the first baseman's glove is not enough, he has to actually catch it. That means we should see little of the ball since, when caught, it's inside his glove. In which case the runner is out by considerably less than a stride.

06-03-2010, 01:04 PM	#64
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	I hate slippery slope arguments. It is easy to not make it a slippery slope. Say this is the exception and any time another person has a perfect game taken away by a call that the umpire admits is wrong then we can overturn that as well. And that is it. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

06-03-2010, 01:26 PM	#69
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	Were all of the pitches that Galarraga threw for called strikes in the strike zone? Just wondering... __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

06-03-2010, 01:26 PM	#70
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	If you don't think it should ever be done, that is fine. I am in that boat. But to say it shouldn't be done because of a slippery slope argument is what I don't like. If what happened last night is the only exception, then there is no slippery slope. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

06-03-2010, 01:36 PM	#73
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	But this play doesn't change the outcome of the game at all. That can be the line. If it is the 27th out and it doesn't change the outcome of the game, we can review it. If it doesn't meet that situation we will not make a change. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

06-03-2010, 01:38 PM	#74
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	Btw, I am in the camp of not making the change. I just don't think it is a slippery slope. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

06-03-2010, 01:31 PM	#71
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	It IS a slippery slope, jax. Change this and anyone who's hit a HR ruled not so in the past has every right to come forward with tape evidence and ask that it be changed. That changes outcomes of games possibly, pitcher's records, save tallies, standings, possibly division titles/wildcard berths, playoff matchups, LCS matchups, outcomes, WS matchups......etc. Not to mention balls and strikes, phantom tags at second on a DP, ..........etc. There's no ending point. The guy didnt throw a perfect game. It was umped on the field not to be a perfect game. End of story. It doesnt make me against the pitcher, but FOR the game of baseball as a whole.

06-03-2010, 02:26 PM	#80
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Well, having watched the video of the play, I think it was a lot closer than many of you are giving it credit for. In live action it looked like a very close play to me. One of the still photos I've seen shows the runner being out by a step. But, in that photo you can still see the ball. Seems to me the ball simply reaching the first baseman's glove is not enough, he has to actually catch it. That means we should see little of the ball since, when caught, it's inside his glove. In which case the runner is out by considerably less than a stride.