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#41 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,290
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I think that we need to make a 64-person, single elimination tournament.
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#42 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Long Island
Posts: 11,283
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Quote:
So, if I'm watching my football team and one of them is an Antonio Brown, I have to put it out of my mind what kind of man he is. And I have to put it out of my mind that on any play, I could witness someone's leg being snapped by a 350-pound lineman. Those are the tradeoffs, and I may not want to make them anymore.
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#43 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,345
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Quote:
Football, too, has this problem. But for me, it's mostly just a bunch of faceless game pieces running around in helmets. In contrast to the NBA where the televised game is much more up close and personal, and personality driven. Just hard to watch anymore. |
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#44 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Edit...this didn't age well. John Stockton turns out to be a dumbass. I lost a TON of respect for him, as a person. Last edited by dsvitak; 01-25-2022 at 11:30 PM. |
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#45 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,607
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There are plenty of unselfish players in the modern game; in fact, I’d say there’s far less iso ball than there was 20 years ago. Even when guys do clear out one side of the court and isolate on a player, it’s for specific possessions late in the game or in small spurts. Way more than that, what I see a lot of are pick and roll and pick and pop plays. Also, of course, there’s a ton more open court play, and practically no big stiff maneuvers - even true centers nowadays have to shoot 3s every now and then.
In fact, I feel like the biggest gripes people who actually watch the modern game - these are not gripes I agree with, necessarily, but they exist - is that the game’s gotten too soft and there’s no defense and they liked positional ball and that’s no longer around. I will say that until the NBA cracked down on flopping this year, word was that the Euro leagues featured tougher defense, which is a little insane. The “iso ball” and “too many thugs” things are, frankly, 2001 era gripes. Also, as a fan of a guy who modeled his game after Kobe’s, basically nobody plays like that anymore. Kobe’s entire game, which I admit was annoying as hell when you were a fan of the other team, was to iso on you and, if/when he couldn’t break you down (he never did have the first step of a Michael Jordan or for that matter AI), he’d figure out how to take a step back midrange jumper on you - statistically speaking, the least efficient shot in basketball - and still somehow drain it. DeMar DeRozan (the guy who is I think is closest to Kobe right now) can hit midrange shots all day, Zach LaVine seems to have learned that trick from him this year, Kevin Durant can hit midrange jumpers, Nikola Jokic is good at them for a big man… and that’s basically everybody who can sort of play like Kobe. Everyone else either shoots 3s or they shoot from within 10 feet of the basket, with very, very few exceptions. The death of the midrange shot actually is another thing purists gripe about.
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#46 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
My last year in the Air Force, I was 27-60 from three point land. This is 45%. Granted that intramural ball isn't the NBA, and that the defense wasn't as tight, but getting 10.4 points per game with two twelve minute halves isn't bad. I was way more productive than most of my teammates. Led the team in scoring, year after year. If you want to maximize your team's chance to win, then you need to get your points per shot as high as possible. Kobe's last year in the league, he was DEAD LAST in the entire NBA for points per shot, due to the number of contested bricks he threw up. He was the master of the 12-28. |
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#47 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,607
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Kobe got hurt and then was horrible when he came back. End of career Kobe is not a great comparison.
The midrange in general isn't a good percentage shot but if you hit around half of them (I think the leaguewide percentage on them is around 40%) and draw fouls (which isn't easy with the new rules but Kobe did this back in the day and I see KD and DeRozan drawing plenty of fouls on these shots as well) then it becomes a question of, regardless of whether or not it's supposed to be an efficient shot, if you make it efficient then there's no reason you shouldn't be putting the shot up. It's a little like the skyhook in its way. A big should generally be scoring 3 feet in on post-ups (things have gotten a lot different in today's day and age when even top post players like Joel Embiid are asked to shoot 3s as well, but this still applies) and one of the big reasons why post offense is such a big deal is that in addition to the shots being crazy high percentage, you also tend to draw a lot of fouls. You don't do that with the skyhook. The skyhook is a terribly low percentage play... unless you're Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and you consistently sink them 65-70% of the time. Maximizing your team's chances to win often means zigging where the rest of the league zags. Like I said, basically nobody else outside of the 4 guys I mentioned - you can probably find an odd player or two on some other team but those guys are basically it - even tries the midrange shot. If a player tries shooting them a lot they are quickly dissuaded. DeRozan, like I said, is kind of an insane outlier (and his game is one of the reasons TBH why I've enjoyed basketball so much this year - just the fact that you can still be successful playing this way) but the guy has a usage rate of over 30% and *still* manages a true shooting % of close to 60%. KD, who I will always be a fan of since he's the last former Sonic left in the league, is even better, with a usage rate just as high but a 61% TS%. Nearly half of KD's shots this year have come from 10 feet out to the 3 point line.
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#48 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,255
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Add Antonio Margarito to it for having plaster in his wraps.
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#49 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,607
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Oh yeah, that guy is easily in my top 2 or 3. Watching Sugar Shane Mosley beat him down after he got caught with plaster on his wraps before their fight (Mosley’s trainer saw it and made their team redo the wrap) was one of the most satisfying events in my boxing lifetime.
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#50 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,349
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Baseball was more than happy to embrace McGwire and Sosa during '98 if it meant it made them look better following the '94 strike. They almost certainly knew they were using, or at least looked the other way. Not allowing Bonds in the hall would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
Last edited by monkeyman576; 01-25-2022 at 09:25 AM. |
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#51 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Long Island
Posts: 11,283
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Quote:
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#52 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,607
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I'd probably vote for Sosa before McGwire just because I find Sosa to not be the raging a-hole that Mac is but then I don't get to make that vote anyway so the point is sort of moot. I'm otherwise sympathetic to the notion that set rules or no, Bonds in particular had to know that what he was doing at the time was outside the bounds of regular sportsmanship. Game of Shadows was awwwwfully incriminating in my eyes. I think Clemens was clearly doing similar things.
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#53 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,349
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Players shouldn't be subject to standards for something that wasn't illegal(by society or by baseball) when it happened. Post 2001 players I could (somewhat) understand, but not pre 2001 players. Baseball is complicant, and therefore lacks any moral authority to keep these players out of the hall in my opinion.
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#54 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,255
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Quote:
Barrera v Hamed was one for me that I loved just because Prince Naseem was such a goon and Barrera was my favorite. Last edited by pauwoo; 01-26-2022 at 10:15 PM. |
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#55 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Mark McGwire had a BIG canister of Creatine in his locker. Visible to everyone, and something he never hid. Why would he? It was LEGAL. The fact that andro-creatine is a precursor to anabolic steroids wasn't lost on anyone. Every player in the major leagues could have had this same canister of this same - legal - substance, and used it, and became huge. Hell..a lot of them did. *cough*pujols*cough. |
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#56 |
Bat Boy
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 8
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I can't remember any baseball player that would be controversial for me, but Michael Tyson and Gerald McEllan are two of the most controversial athletes for me.
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#57 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Long Island
Posts: 11,283
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Heh, this should be an open-ended poll with the current "Top Ten" in the opening post.
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#58 |
Global Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,695
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Joe Dimaggio? What did he do? Was marrying Marilyn Monroe somehow controversial? Maybe their marriage was rocky, but from what I heard they had a great loving bond.
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#59 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 8,608
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That one was weird to me as well. He did like a drink. But nothing close to the level of Mantle
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#60 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,349
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He reportedly had ties to the mafia as well.
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