My long reliever is exhausted after 30 pitches

[Qeltar]

The roles only mean anything for the AI. Presumably designating someone as LR instead of MR just tells the AI "bring this guy in more often if a reliever is needed in the early innings than that other guy."

If you ask the AI to set things up, the roles are mostly (not entirely) just a pecking order of pitcher quality. Since I have an RP with good stamina (develop a third pitch, will you?!) I have noticed that doesn't seem to make him more likely to be assigned LR.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by timmermac

I find that even in 1954, I can't really use someone not in the starting rotation with stamina in the high 90's or over 100 for more than maybe 4 or 5 innings in relief.

I can *definitely* pitch a guy for more than 4 or 5 innings in relief in 1946. Usually he'll be completely gassed by the time he gets to 7 innings or so (or, if he's not pitching well, 3 or 4 innings) but the point of leaving a guy in in those situations isn't so much that he's naturally got the stuff to throw 7 or 8 innings a knock every time out, it's that your starter got injured or knocked out of the box early or else it's deep into the extra innings and you just need a guy to soak up the innings. And in those situations, pitchers will totally soak up those innings. They'll be pretty crummy once they go all the way into the red but at that I've seen those sorts of players get 1-2-3 innings (usually this happens when it's late at night IRL and I need to work the next morning).

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by Silfir

I feel like if I have a player set to "Long Relief" and I bring him in prior to the fifth inning he should be able to throw like... 70 pitches as long as he's fully rested?

I would be curious to know how many times per season that has actually happened the last several seasons. I remember it as a kid, but wonder if we are discounting the potential accuracy of OOTP here. I may see if I can find any numbers. Seems like Long relievers now do only go 40-50 pitches, three innings (except Bumgarner in a World Series, but he’s not human).

[Qeltar]

I don't know why it matters how often it happens these days. It does happen. Price did it in the playoffs last year, as just one example off the top of my head.

I can bat my pitcher 7th, or carry 10 relievers, or do any of a zillion other things that don't happen in MLB for whatever reason, but not because they are against the rules or don't make physical sense. There was a time when batting a pitcher 8th was considered something that "never happened" and yet today it does.

Two-way players hadn't happened in decades. Now there is one. The game supports it.

Stamina right now, and especially this "hard division" between SP and RP, doesn't seem logical to me. I don't see any reason why a 35 stamina RP who is made a starter can magically pitch 5 innings, but a 45 stamina RP who comes out of the bullpen has "only a couple of batters left" after 32 pitches.

IMO the game should be accurate in the sense of outcomes reflecting what the numbers suggest they should. Right now stamina is not there.

[5-4-3]

OOTP sets stamina values for relievers far too low.

[Qeltar]

I just checked and IRL Kimbrel threw 25 or more pitches in 8 of his 67 appearances last year. Several of those were over 30 pitches, including in two consecutive appearances with 2 days off between them. And he's not exactly a long guy.

In April 2017, Chris Devenski had 7 appearances with the following pitch counts: 60, 60, 18, 26, 39, 7, 44.

Chris Rusin had numerous long relief appearances in 2016, and to a lesser extent in 2017.

Etc.

[Syd Thrift]

I mean, I'd submit that Devenski was a bit hung out there in both of those 60 pitch outings. In the first one, he came on in the 8th and pitched 4 innings before leaving after the 11th. The game actually went another 3 innings after that, but the 3 pitchers (who threw a single inning apiece) were 2 guys who had just thrown the night before and Mike Peacock, who I can only surmise was the last reliever available off the bench (there was also closer Ken Giles, although he'd also just thrown the game before). In the other game it looks like there was more of the bullpen to go to but a. it was 4 days after they'd completely depleted it, b. they probably *did* only have 3ish guys available at that point (Devenski was pitcher #3 and the Astros had used 3 pitchers the day before) and on top of that it was a day game after a night game.

I'd submit that if those games were OOTP, Devenski would be completely exhausted for the last inning or two of both of those and that would reflect real life.

I'm not deaf to the notion that relievers need to have more innings available, especially in the modern game, but it's tough to extrapolate that, necessarily, from these outings (or, probably, from any individual outing; there will probably always be extenuating circumstances when a pitcher throws 60 pitches in relief).

[Qeltar]

I certainly don't mean to suggest that these appearances are representative. I just offered them as evidence that the use of long relief is not dead (and in fact has risen slightly in the last couple of years.)

At any rate, if my 45 Stamina RP can barely go any longer than a 25 Stamina RP, I am not sure why that higher number matters. And I definitely don't understand how starting a game in the 2nd instead of the 1st magically makes a starter get tired 2-3x as fast.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by 5-4-3

OOTP sets stamina values for relievers far too low.

I agree, so I turn pitcher fatigue down a notch from the MLB setting. Try it.

[5-4-3]

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

I agree, so I turn pitcher fatigue down a notch from the MLB setting. Try it.

That’s a great idea. Thank you, I’ll try that.