My long reliever is exhausted after 30 pitches

llcmac · 05-03-2018, 04:41 PM

I made sure his position was SP, he has 68 stamina. I need him to eat innings because I have a lot of young arms I'm developing. But he can't make it past 2 innings.

What am I doing wrong?

Qeltar · 05-03-2018, 05:30 PM

Had the same issue.

Basically, stamina is interpreted as relative to the position. As soon as he is put in as a reliever, the high stamina means "high stamina for a reliever." That's why an RP with stamina of 35 can also start and go 4 or 5 innings.

There doesn't seem to be a provision for long relievers in the game right now, it's just something that fell through the cracks in their efforts to balance the game to avoid relievers pitching ungodly numbers of innings.

itsmb8 · 05-03-2018, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Had the same issue.

Basically, stamina is interpreted as relative to the position. As soon as he is put in as a reliever, the high stamina means "high stamina for a reliever." That's why an RP with stamina of 35 can also start and go 4 or 5 innings.

There doesn't seem to be a provision for long relievers in the game right now, it's just something that fell through the cracks in their efforts to balance the game to avoid relievers pitching ungodly numbers of innings.

What if you have ratings based on all players checked, wouldnt it be a universal stamina rating then?

RchW · 05-03-2018, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Had the same issue.

Basically, stamina is interpreted as relative to the position. As soon as he is put in as a reliever, the high stamina means "high stamina for a reliever." That's why an RP with stamina of 35 can also start and go 4 or 5 innings.

There doesn't seem to be a provision for long relievers in the game right now, it's just something that fell through the cracks in their efforts to balance the game to avoid relievers pitching ungodly numbers of innings.

Context needed.

Are you guys playing current MLB, historical or fictional based on historical pitcher usage?

There is no such thing as a long reliever in current day MLB. Just go to baseball reference and check relief pitching. Most if not all pitchers used in relief averaged less than 2 innings per relief appearance. A small subset of SP were used as swing men in between spot starts. They, very rarely pitch 3 or 4 innings in a pinch.

I'd recommend you take the pitcher you want to be long and set him as a SP, but only if he has starter/borderline in his profile.

Qeltar · 05-03-2018, 09:16 PM

Setting the guy as SP hasn't let me get the number of innings out of him that I'd have expected, though. If I have a guy with 60 stamina and he starts a game, he can pitch 6 innings if he doesn't struggle. If I bring the same guy in the 2nd inning on the same amount of rest, he'll do maybe 3.

You simply can't really set up a classical long reliever in this game it would seem, it's just not designed that way.

I'm playing current MLB.

Orcin · 05-03-2018, 09:32 PM

Here's your answer...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

There is no such thing as a long reliever in current day MLB.

Qeltar · 05-03-2018, 10:07 PM

That's not entirely true though.

And there are lots of things that no longer exist in MLB, or never did, that OOTP supports. Using LRs is an entirely valid strategy, and these things tend to come and go in and out of fashion. (For example, for years there was the "closer comes into the game in the 9th" mantra and that has changed in recent years.)

I see no reason why this should be essentially not doable in the game.

RchW · 05-03-2018, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Setting the guy as SP hasn't let me get the number of innings out of him that I'd have expected, though. If I have a guy with 60 stamina and he starts a game, he can pitch 6 innings if he doesn't struggle. If I bring the same guy in the 2nd inning on the same amount of rest, he'll do maybe 3.

You simply can't really set up a classical long reliever in this game it would seem, it's just not designed that way.

I'm playing current MLB.

Because that pitcher doesn't exist today!

You can change the baseball era or strategy inside the game.

Qeltar · 05-03-2018, 10:24 PM

I'm confused, because when I brought this up a little while ago, one of the devs seemed to be saying not "this is deliberate" but more "this is just how the system worked out."

Are you saying that (short of commissioner mode hackery) if I play a historical game then I will be able to bring in a starter in the 2nd and have him pitch through the 7th, for example?

PS What I was saying about trends... https://www.azsnakepit.com/2017/4/25...-long-reliever

RchW · 05-03-2018, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

That's not entirely true though.

And there are lots of things that no longer exist in MLB, or never did, that OOTP supports. Using LRs is an entirely valid strategy, and these things tend to come and go in and out of fashion. (For example, for years there was the "closer comes into the game in the 9th" mantra and that has changed in recent years.)

I see no reason why this should be essentially not doable in the game.

Of course it's doable but not on default settings. Imagine the posts you would see if the 2018 roster set had 4 inning LR under the default settings. Not realistic at all.

Edit:

check general strategic settings in game.

Qeltar · 05-03-2018, 10:36 PM

Modern pitchers do sometimes throw long relief appearances. It is now more common on a percentage basis in the playoffs but it is not something that doesn't happen.

From a logical perspective, I understand the idea of stamina being a relative thing, but long relievers have fallen through the cracks here. If a starting pitcher can throw 100 pitches once every 6 days in a rotation, I see no reason why he can't throw 100 pitches once every 6 days in long relief.

RchW · 05-03-2018, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Modern pitchers do sometimes throw long relief appearances. It is now more common on a percentage basis in the playoffs but it is not something that doesn't happen.

From a logical perspective, I understand the idea of stamina being a relative thing, but long relievers have fallen through the cracks here. If a starting pitcher can throw 100 pitches once every 6 days in a rotation, I see no reason why he can't throw 100 pitches once every 6 days in long relief.

Rarely, as I pointed out to you earlier in the 2017 stats at BR

I've also suggested some in game adjustments

Not sure what more info I can give.

bigd51 · 05-03-2018, 10:59 PM

I've see somewhere before that a guy set as a RP (whether it's long relief, middle, etc.), their stamina takes a hit because, as an RP, they don't have to "hold back their stuff"... meaning they throw harder.

If you're long relief pitcher is only throwing 2 or 3 innings before tiring, then that's realistic. IRL, if a long relief has to come into the game earlier than the 5th or 6th inning, it means the team is down by quite a bit and can't afford to be patient like a starter would.

Otherwise, every team would just fill their entire staff w/ SP's and there would be no use for RP's/Closers...

timmermac · 05-03-2018, 11:19 PM

I find that even in 1954, I can't really use someone not in the starting rotation with stamina in the high 90's or over 100 for more than maybe 4 or 5 innings in relief.

Orioles1966 · 05-04-2018, 09:38 AM

I thought long reliefers meant a pitcher who pitched 3 or 4 or 5 innings but with OOTP19 we are lucky if he pitches 2 innings.

Bunktown Ballers · 05-04-2018, 10:56 AM

If the players position is set to SP & he comes in as a reliever then he will get tired faster, but if prior ro the game you change him to RP he can & will go 4-5 innings if he pitching well enough. The position has to be changed from SP to RP prior to game if you in GM mode. If not.....tired quickly

Matt Arnold · 05-04-2018, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

If the players position is set to SP & he comes in as a reliever then he will get tired faster, but if prior ro the game you change him to RP he can & will go 4-5 innings if he pitching well enough. The position has to be changed from SP to RP prior to game if you in GM mode. If not.....tired quickly

That doesn't matter anymore. Pitcher fatigue as a SP and as a RP are both computed separately no matter what position you have them set to. Only depends how you actually use them.

timmermac · 05-04-2018, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

That doesn't matter anymore. Pitcher fatigue as a SP and as a RP are both computed separately no matter what position you have them set to. Only depends how you actually use them.

Then why do SP that aren't in the rotation, but appear in long relief, even with stamina ratings of 95+, fatigue after 4 or 5 innings of work with only 60-75 pitches thrown? This happens in 1954, btw.

Rain King · 05-04-2018, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmermac

Then why do SP that aren't in the rotation, but appear in long relief, even with stamina ratings of 95+, fatigue after 4 or 5 innings of work with only 60-75 pitches thrown? This happens in 1954, btw.

Because they are pitching in relief. He is saying that the position isn't what matters in calculating how long they can throw, the actual usage does.

Currently, OOTP does not handle "Long Relief" usage very well. All pitchers in relief roles are essentially limited to "short relief".

Silfir · 05-04-2018, 12:44 PM

I feel like if I have a player set to "Long Relief" and I bring him in prior to the fifth inning he should be able to throw like... 70 pitches as long as he's fully rested to start with, didn't pitch the day before, has Starter-level Stamina, and it results in him being stone tired for a bunch of days as though he just started a game. And his Stuff of course would be adjusted according the SP position, of course.

All that being said, if Long Relief is considered to not be a thing anymore, why is it being offered as a possible role in the Pitching Staff screen? What's the distinction between Middle Relief and Long Relief?

05-03-2018, 04:41 PM	#1
llcmac Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 38	My long reliever is exhausted after 30 pitches I made sure his position was SP, he has 68 stamina. I need him to eat innings because I have a lot of young arms I'm developing. But he can't make it past 2 innings. What am I doing wrong?

05-03-2018, 10:07 PM	#7
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	That's not entirely true though. And there are lots of things that no longer exist in MLB, or never did, that OOTP supports. Using LRs is an entirely valid strategy, and these things tend to come and go in and out of fashion. (For example, for years there was the "closer comes into the game in the 9th" mantra and that has changed in recent years.) I see no reason why this should be essentially not doable in the game. Last edited by Qeltar; 05-03-2018 at 10:17 PM.

05-03-2018, 10:24 PM	#9
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	I'm confused, because when I brought this up a little while ago, one of the devs seemed to be saying not "this is deliberate" but more "this is just how the system worked out." Are you saying that (short of commissioner mode hackery) if I play a historical game then I will be able to bring in a starter in the 2nd and have him pitch through the 7th, for example? PS What I was saying about trends... https://www.azsnakepit.com/2017/4/25...-long-reliever Last edited by Qeltar; 05-03-2018 at 10:26 PM.

05-03-2018, 11:19 PM	#14
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	I find that even in 1954, I can't really use someone not in the starting rotation with stamina in the high 90's or over 100 for more than maybe 4 or 5 innings in relief. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land!

05-03-2018, 05:30 PM	#2
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Had the same issue. Basically, stamina is interpreted as relative to the position. As soon as he is put in as a reliever, the high stamina means "high stamina for a reliever." That's why an RP with stamina of 35 can also start and go 4 or 5 innings. There doesn't seem to be a provision for long relievers in the game right now, it's just something that fell through the cracks in their efforts to balance the game to avoid relievers pitching ungodly numbers of innings.

05-03-2018, 09:16 PM	#5
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Setting the guy as SP hasn't let me get the number of innings out of him that I'd have expected, though. If I have a guy with 60 stamina and he starts a game, he can pitch 6 innings if he doesn't struggle. If I bring the same guy in the 2nd inning on the same amount of rest, he'll do maybe 3. You simply can't really set up a classical long reliever in this game it would seem, it's just not designed that way. I'm playing current MLB.

05-03-2018, 10:36 PM	#11
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Modern pitchers do sometimes throw long relief appearances. It is now more common on a percentage basis in the playoffs but it is not something that doesn't happen. From a logical perspective, I understand the idea of stamina being a relative thing, but long relievers have fallen through the cracks here. If a starting pitcher can throw 100 pitches once every 6 days in a rotation, I see no reason why he can't throw 100 pitches once every 6 days in long relief.

05-03-2018, 10:59 PM	#13
bigd51 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 277	I've see somewhere before that a guy set as a RP (whether it's long relief, middle, etc.), their stamina takes a hit because, as an RP, they don't have to "hold back their stuff"... meaning they throw harder. If you're long relief pitcher is only throwing 2 or 3 innings before tiring, then that's realistic. IRL, if a long relief has to come into the game earlier than the 5th or 6th inning, it means the team is down by quite a bit and can't afford to be patient like a starter would. Otherwise, every team would just fill their entire staff w/ SP's and there would be no use for RP's/Closers...

05-04-2018, 09:38 AM	#15
Orioles1966 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,869	I thought long reliefers meant a pitcher who pitched 3 or 4 or 5 innings but with OOTP19 we are lucky if he pitches 2 innings.

05-04-2018, 10:56 AM	#16
Bunktown Ballers All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,611 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	If the players position is set to SP & he comes in as a reliever then he will get tired faster, but if prior ro the game you change him to RP he can & will go 4-5 innings if he pitching well enough. The position has to be changed from SP to RP prior to game if you in GM mode. If not.....tired quickly

05-04-2018, 12:44 PM	#20
Silfir Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 138	I feel like if I have a player set to "Long Relief" and I bring him in prior to the fifth inning he should be able to throw like... 70 pitches as long as he's fully rested to start with, didn't pitch the day before, has Starter-level Stamina, and it results in him being stone tired for a bunch of days as though he just started a game. And his Stuff of course would be adjusted according the SP position, of course. All that being said, if Long Relief is considered to not be a thing anymore, why is it being offered as a possible role in the Pitching Staff screen? What's the distinction between Middle Relief and Long Relief?