Multinational league questions - Page 2

Tony M · 05-23-2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

With this proposal it can be set up league-wide and then tweaked on a per team basis, right? That way you could say certain countries have certain rules and others don't.

I suppose it could be done as such, but if it was I'd want that held off until 10. I can't see too much problem with a league-wide implementation (as long as the AI is fixed to deal with it) for 9 if there's time.

I think RMc's and mine are the two sides to the similar coin - his is to do with the creation of players universe wide and mine is how to impose limits on them per team. Would need to get both right to avoid teams having the unenviable problem of not enough local players to fill one team.

RMc · 05-23-2008, 10:31 AM

Well, if it is set per team then essentially you could have National or Country teams within one leage structure and this can be maintained from season to season. Per team would be a huge improvement and essentially allows a World Cup league.

I'm already working on one: the World Baseball Organization will have clubs in all 116 (!) nations in the International Baseball Federation (IBAF). After a few seasons spent sorting things out, it will eventually be a four-level organization with 32 teams in the top-level World Baseball League, 32 in Division 1, 32 in Division 2 and 20 in Division 3. Relegation and promotion: four teams per level per year.

But the real question is: do I insert real pro players amongst the armies of fictionals...? And how would the amateur draft work? (I'll probably just eliminate the ammy draft, and just add new fictionals every year...)

enuttage · 05-23-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

Yes please for the change, if possible.

Kivlehan · 05-23-2008, 09:01 PM

Reading about this got me off my a$$ and had me place the inevitable pre-order for the game. Any way international play could work like winter leagues so that players could play for both a national team and their club team in separate competitions?

dankrzyz · 05-23-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

It seems to me to be more intuitive that a "change foreigner percent" would be some X percent change from what the "base" pool would look like. In a 1-nation league, X percent would be from another country; in a 5-nation league, Y percent would be from countries, other than those 5, that wouldn't be in the draft otherwise.

Interested to hear others' thoughts on which would make more sense...

Sdpm100 · 05-24-2008, 03:08 AM

Just make it user definable percentages by nation in each league. Very easy. But clearly, like so many other of my ideas, it has already been declared rubbish by those who matter.

Tony M · 05-24-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

Just make it user definable percentages by nation in each league. Very easy. But clearly, like so many other of my ideas, it has already been declared rubbish by those who matter.

Join the band...

Tony M · 05-25-2008, 06:33 AM

Just knocked together a quick pdf on how the screen could be setup to allow my foreigner limits (it's been enhanced from my original post)

Foreigner Limits

Bishop · 05-25-2008, 06:42 AM

remember tho, the foreign player limits that the game has already doesn't work very well in practice. For example, the Japanese Leagues will sign players over the roster limit, but be unable to place them on the active roster, so will just stick them in AAA for the duration of their contract, creating a logjam.

If that's still the case with 9, I'm not sure it'll be worth it except in an online league situation.

Tony M · 05-25-2008, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

remember tho, the foreign player limits that the game has already doesn't work very well in practice. For example, the Japanese Leagues will sign players over the roster limit, but be unable to place them on the active roster, so will just stick them in AAA for the duration of their contract, creating a logjam.

If that's still the case with 9, I'm not sure it'll be worth it except in an online league situation.

Yep, the AI needs to be improved not to horde, although the foreigner limits could apply to minor leagues as well.

SC_Dawg · 05-25-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

It would be nice to have the flixibility to have it either way. The big thing I have always disliked about the way the foreigner limit works is that you cannot have a situation where you can designate something like the following.

4 foreign player max per team
2 Pitcher Maximum
3 Hitter Maximum

In my ideal setup with foreign player maximums like the above the possible combinations would be

0 P 0 H
0 P 1 H
0 P 2 H
0 P 3 H
1 P 0 H
1 P 1 H
1 P 2 H
1 P 3 H
2 P 0 H
2 P 1 H
2 P 2 H

I know it sounds trivial but it has been irking me since foreigner maximums were implemented.

Tony M · 05-25-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC_Dawg

It would be nice to have the flixibility to have it either way. The big thing I have always disliked about the way the foreigner limit works is that you cannot have a situation where you can designate something like the following.

4 foreign player max per team
2 Pitcher Maximum
3 Hitter Maximum

In my ideal setup with foreign player maximums like the above the possible combinations would be

0 P 0 H
0 P 1 H
0 P 2 H
0 P 3 H
1 P 0 H
1 P 1 H
1 P 2 H
1 P 3 H
2 P 0 H
2 P 1 H
2 P 2 H

I know it sounds trivial but it has been irking me since foreigner maximums were implemented.

Ithought you could - when you set the limit, two more drop downs appear.

SC_Dawg · 05-25-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxford

Ithought you could - when you set the limit, two more drop downs appear.

Nope it doesn't work that way. It is the sole reason I have not implemented my dream dynasty.

kq76 · 05-25-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC_Dawg

Nope it doesn't work that way. It is the sole reason I have not implemented my dream dynasty.

What's this then? Are we misunderstanding something?

SC_Dawg · 05-25-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

What's this then? Are we misunderstanding something?

Run the league out a season and check the foreigners on rosters. It will not be as you have it set.

kq76 · 05-25-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC_Dawg

Run the league out a season and check the foreigners on rosters. It will not be as you have it set.

Ah, I see. I ran an 8 team test lg for one year and all but 1 team followed the rules. 1 had 2 pitchers and 3 hitters for a total of 5 instead of the 4. So I guess the problem is it follows the pitcher/hitter limits, but not the total as well. I thought you were meaning the problem was the opposite. But I agree, it should follow all of the limits. Although I wonder if it's just a problem when the roster expands.

SC_Dawg · 05-25-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Ah, I see. I ran an 8 team test lg for one year and all but 1 team followed the rules. 1 had 2 pitchers and 3 hitters for a total of 5 instead of the 4. So I guess the problem is it follows the pitcher/hitter limits, but not the total as well. I thought you were meaning the problem was the opposite. But I agree, it should follow all of the limits. Although I wonder if it's just a problem when the roster expands.

Nope it is a problem at big bang and all the time thereafter. The individual hitter and pitcher limits and not the overall limit is what is followed to the letter. I have started, run, re-started, re-run, expanded, contracted etc and never have I seen the game follow all the rules.

It is the single pet peeve I have had with the game since foerigner limits were introduced. Trivial to most but it has prevented me from starting the Carolina Mill League

Antonin · 05-26-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

If you have a multinational league, what does 'league nationality' mean in terms of what players are in your league? I noticed in the example given at the FOF site that 'league nationality' is given as United States.

If I have a multinational league, I'd like the headquarters of the league to be someplace like Switzerland.

Maybe in such leagues it would be best to have foreigner limits decided by team...

But this raises the question of player quality. Some countries are not really 'baseball countries,' but you might want to have a team there. They would not be very competitive with teams from other parts of the world.

Can you modify the 'baseball level' of individual countries to make, say, Sierra Leone competitive with the Dominican Republic?

No Pepper · 05-27-2008, 10:34 AM

Very good ideas, RMc and redsoxford, well thought out and explained. This is what the limit feature should have been in the first place, but I suppose due to its complexity (getting the AI to manage it) it wasn't and/or would be implemented in steps in subsequent releases. Saying that, at the very least the current foreigner limits should be fixed and work as advertised.

And yes, Antonin, you can edit Sierra Leone to be a baseball nation on par with the US if you wanted. That involves editing the nations.txt file. See manual for details.

Tony M · 05-27-2008, 10:51 AM

Somewhere up in this thread I think, I mooted the idea of an adaptable nations and cities setup file that instead of having a baseball level of between 0 and 5 there should be an ability to modify the average ratings.

Currently a player created as Japanese has the same average ratings as an American (if you create enough of them). Japanese hitters probably have a lower power rating than American hitters so this could be done in my setup file as modifying the average Japanese power to 0.95 for example. This could be further modified at a region or city level if so wanted. There would also be the ability to alter the average height/weight per country/region/city

05-23-2008, 10:31 AM	#22
RMc All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,632	Well, if it is set per team then essentially you could have National or Country teams within one leage structure and this can be maintained from season to season. Per team would be a huge improvement and essentially allows a World Cup league. I'm already working on one: the World Baseball Organization will have clubs in all 116 (!) nations in the International Baseball Federation (IBAF). After a few seasons spent sorting things out, it will eventually be a four-level organization with 32 teams in the top-level World Baseball League, 32 in Division 1, 32 in Division 2 and 20 in Division 3. Relegation and promotion: four teams per level per year. But the real question is: do I insert real pro players amongst the armies of fictionals...? And how would the amateur draft work? (I'll probably just eliminate the ammy draft, and just add new fictionals every year...) __________________ "We're all behind our baseball team..." Last edited by RMc; 05-23-2008 at 10:32 AM.

05-25-2008, 06:33 AM	#28
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	Just knocked together a quick pdf on how the screen could be setup to allow my foreigner limits (it's been enhanced from my original post) Foreigner Limits __________________ This signature is intentionally blank Last edited by Tony M; 05-25-2008 at 06:35 AM.

05-27-2008, 10:34 AM	#39
No Pepper All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,570	Very good ideas, RMc and redsoxford, well thought out and explained. This is what the limit feature should have been in the first place, but I suppose due to its complexity (getting the AI to manage it) it wasn't and/or would be implemented in steps in subsequent releases. Saying that, at the very least the current foreigner limits should be fixed and work as advertised. And yes, Antonin, you can edit Sierra Leone to be a baseball nation on par with the US if you wanted. That involves editing the nations.txt file. See manual for details. __________________ Uniforms compatible with OOTP23/24 Historical Major League Baseball 1901-current Historical Major League Baseball 1871-1900 Historical Federal League Historical Negro Leagues

05-27-2008, 10:51 AM	#40
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	Somewhere up in this thread I think, I mooted the idea of an adaptable nations and cities setup file that instead of having a baseball level of between 0 and 5 there should be an ability to modify the average ratings. Currently a player created as Japanese has the same average ratings as an American (if you create enough of them). Japanese hitters probably have a lower power rating than American hitters so this could be done in my setup file as modifying the average Japanese power to 0.95 for example. This could be further modified at a region or city level if so wanted. There would also be the ability to alter the average height/weight per country/region/city __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

05-23-2008, 09:01 PM	#24
Kivlehan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 160	Reading about this got me off my a$$ and had me place the inevitable pre-order for the game. Any way international play could work like winter leagues so that players could play for both a national team and their club team in separate competitions?

05-24-2008, 03:08 AM	#26
Sdpm100 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cheltenham, England Posts: 7,644	Just make it user definable percentages by nation in each league. Very easy. But clearly, like so many other of my ideas, it has already been declared rubbish by those who matter.

05-25-2008, 06:42 AM	#29
Bishop All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tejas Posts: 709	remember tho, the foreign player limits that the game has already doesn't work very well in practice. For example, the Japanese Leagues will sign players over the roster limit, but be unable to place them on the active roster, so will just stick them in AAA for the duration of their contract, creating a logjam. If that's still the case with 9, I'm not sure it'll be worth it except in an online league situation.