OOTP 9 - sound

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by kckid4u

Oh brother.

Well, he sounds like I did two years ago. Some people are very concerned about OOTPB turning into an arcade-style game. I now know that there is little chance of that happening, that MH and crew will never sacrifice simulation realism for flashy stuff. So, I am much more welcoming of touches that please more players like sound and ball flight. Besides, I miss the latter a bit from my Strat-O-Matic playing days.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Well, he sounds like I did two years ago. Some people are very concerned about OOTPB turning into an arcade-style game. I now know that there is little chance of that happening, that MH and crew will never sacrifice simulation realism for flashy stuff. So, I am much more welcoming of touches that please more players like sound and ball flight. Besides, I miss the latter a bit from my Strat-O-Matic playing days.

I was a big one of those who wanted sound - badly. I'm glad it's here and hope it is done well. I'm also glad it can be turned off for those that don't want it.

That said, I would like to see SOME sort of animation. I really like the in-game experence of BM09, but question how badly that whole "select the pitch location" will alter the stats (that would be a bad thing). And, from what I've read, the stats aren't all that accurate to start with - so that likely kills BM for me. But I digress. . .

Hell, something like the guys running and ball flight like on the old Microleague (see Holyswish's avatar), to me, would be plenty and not be overly flashy as to detract from the game's "textiness." Could even be seen as cute/fun corniness.

As long as features can be turned on or off for user preferences, I say "ADD 'EM ALL!"

[Ambermonk]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Well, he sounds like I did two years ago. Some people are very concerned about OOTPB turning into an arcade-style game. I now know that there is little chance of that happening, that MH and crew will never sacrifice simulation realism for flashy stuff. So, I am much more welcoming of touches that please more players like sound and ball flight. Besides, I miss the latter a bit from my Strat-O-Matic playing days.

Well said! What we're talking about here are (relatively) small changes that enhance the overall experience - not turn the game into an arcade game. One of the strongest elements of OOTB is the ability to use the elements that you like, and turn off the ones you don't. It is specifically and consciously designed for flexibility so that it could be used by a wide range of people.

Perhaps Beachboy should start a voting thread asking how many people want OOTP to become an arcade game. I think he would be reassured by the results!

[Long_Long_Name]

I think a lot of people are worried about "arcade" stuff determining the result. I think that as long as it illustrates the sim results rather than determining them, I don't see why anyone would have any problem with the inclusion of sound and graphics (other than with the development and testing time it takes away from other features).

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

I think a lot of people are worried about "arcade" stuff determining the result. I think that as long as it illustrates the sim results rather than determining them, I don't see why anyone would have any problem with the inclusion of sound and graphics (other than with the development and testing time it takes away from other features).

Exactly what I was talking about with the "select pitch location" option in the BM09 in-game interface. It's nice, but I fear it alters the outcome a bit much for my tastes.

[Beach23BoyP]

Originally Posted by Ambermonk

Whoa Beachboy! The sky is not falling. First off, OOTP is not a "text baseball sim," it is a statistical baseball sim, and it has statistical, textual, & graphic elements. No one, including you, has been a stronger advocate of improved & enhanced textual elements than myself (please check the forum records).

What is "silly" about ball flight? It is an integral part of baseball, and would presumably be included in a baseball simulation (at some point), and I don't believe anyone said anything about "stickmen." The term I used was "little players" which would have to be proportionally correct in relation to the ballpark. Even the Apple II version in the 1980s did not use "stickmen."

I strongly suspect that if any animation was offered in the future, there would be an option to deselect it - just like turning sound off. What we have been referring to in this thread was the Broadcast view of the game - which is the graphic display mode. This is the logical place for any animations. For those who might be displeased by "graphics" there is also the Webcast view of the game which increases the the text & stats and decreases the graphics.

OOTP is a statistical baseball simulation which has statistical, textual, & graphic elements - and I don't think that you're going to be able to change that. Your inference that a statistical baseball game that has graphic elements would become a simple arcade game is perhaps inappropriate.

You say that you want text, text, & more text. So do I! You may have overlooked the forum thread where I advocated that the major upgrade for a future release could be a complete rewrite & enhancement to the text engine connecting it to the almanac, the leaderboard, & player history (again, please review the forum records). In the broadcast view, the stadium window takes up over 40% of the computer screen. It is to be expected that, as the rest of the game is enhanced, the stadium window will be also. No one is advocating that text be reduced to make room for more graphics - least of all me.

Lastly, your inference that graphics is for "kiddies" is unfortunate and unfair. I suspect that the vast majority of OOTP users watch the broadcast view more than the webcast view - and they are mostly adults, not kiddies.

Of course you are certainly entitled to your preferences and opinions, but so is everyone else. Your tirade itself seems more appropriate for "kiddies" than an adult computer simulation that includes a limited amount of graphics. Please don't be like the Puritans who wanted torture anyone who didn't believe the way they did.

The good news for you is that you can always play the game in Webcast view and avoid any graphic interference if it displeases you. Cheers to Markus for giving us a game that people with all different views can enjoy!

1) I use use the broadcast view 90% of the time. I like it. I also prefer the stadium size view at about 40%. I think the screen is almost perfect.

2) I use the webcast view about 10% of the time when I go to pitch by pitch. Often when there are runners in scoring position. I also think the webcast view could be improved quite a bit. There is actually too much text and it looks cluttered to me. I'd like to see Markus change it to be more like this year's MLB Gameday -- that is a fantastic screen and interface.

3) With regard to more graphics and animation I'm totally against it. Again, why would Markus want to compete against XBox and PS3? Plus, if I want to look a graphical BB sim I'd much rather look at my 1080p big screen with surround sound than my computer.

I look forward to OOTP9 and I'm very pleased with Markus' direction for now. In the past I spent a lot of time with SI's Football Manager and I really enjoy their "animated pitch", but it is my opinion that more "descriptive play by play text and better pitched ball location" is needed in future versions of OOTP rather than "crude animated players chasing a white bean bag". The moving disk players in FM are ok, but the need for that in a BB text, stat or whatever you call it sim is marginal in my opinion.

Finally, BB sims on my XBox 65" screen TV look great -- but I lost interest in three days. I've been interested in card or computer text sims since 1963. BTW, with the exception of keeping that stats I really think the cards -- "APBA and SOM" was perhaps the most fun over all. But compiling the stats was misery!

[Beach23BoyP]

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

Markus, a year ago or so, once stated that in one or two versions, he'd really like to have some sort of simple in-game graphic engine.

That's the problem -- "simple game graphic engine". Why do anything if not done well. Simple means poor.

EA has "great (or good) graphics with a "simple text and a simple stat engine". And EA spreads more misery every single year. They never come thru with a decent sim. I've been there.

[Ambermonk]

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

I think a lot of people are worried about "arcade" stuff determining the result. I think that as long as it illustrates the sim results rather than determining them, I don't see why anyone would have any problem with the inclusion of sound and graphics.

Excellent point! You've hit the nail on the head! The Broadcast (graphic) view should illustrate the results - not determine them. This is perhaps the fundamental difference between arcade & simulation. Well said.

[Charlie Hough]

So what are some specific in-game sounds?

Is the crack of the bat included? How about umpire calls?

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by texasmame

Exactly what I was talking about with the "select pitch location" option in the BM09 in-game interface. It's nice, but I fear it alters the outcome a bit much for my tastes.

It sounds a bit too micromanaging to a foreign layman on baseball like me.

[Sdpm100]

I noticed that the ESPN Game Center thingy now has elevated ball flight. I think the original had just a 2D representation, iirc. If I'm right that could go on the webcast screen no problem.

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

So what are some specific in-game sounds?

Is the crack of the bat included? How about umpire calls?

What about fireworks on home runs, or after winning games on certain occasions? And also fly pasts for the ASG and World Series?

[senorcoo]

Graphically, all I would ask for is game graphics along the lines of Micro League Baseball for Commodore 64. I always liked seeing where the ball was going and the little guys running around and I don't believe that is a lot to ask for and it certainly wouldn't compromise realism. It's the one thing that even makes me play Football Manager over OOTP.

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by Beach23BoyP

... OOTP is a "text baseball sim" and I pray it stays one. We don't need silly ball flight animation and little 1980s stickmen running the bases!

Sound is OK. We can turn it off. But if one needs or desire a graphic BB sim they should play XBox or PS3.

Text, text, more text and "imagination" -- graphics can't even come close! Again, please no stickmen and ball fight! Let PS go there with the kiddies!

Yes, I'm with you on this issue. Perhaps it's a generational thing. When I was growing up, using one's imagination was part of gameplay. When I got older, I began to write stories in an attempt to preserve some of the fantastic ideas I would come up with while daydreaming.

I still believe that no graphical representation and no amount of sound in a computer game could possibly match what I could come up with in my mind.

Sound in OOTP...well, I have no control over what Markus puts in his game. I just want the ability to turn the sound off if I don't like it.

If the sound is done right it could be fun. A loud, energetic "striiiiike!!!" call would be a good place to start. Have three or four varieties to spice things up. I've always loved the sound of a demonstrative umpire hollering "striiiiiiiiike!!!!"

[kq76]

I've missed sound greatly; I'm very pleased to read that it's back. I missed even just the sound that was made when you clicked a menu item. For some odd reason I feel like I really need that.

I just hope it doesn't become much of a problem with how many different sound cards there are out there. If memory serves me, that was what made Markus drop it.

[Beach23BoyP]

I used to like sound, but mine quit working with the 6.5a update. I then realized that I never missed or wanted it again. I now listen to a radio talk show, music or I watch an old western movie.

It will be easy to turn the sound off, but I worry about graphical screens in OOTP future. I guess I could always stop at OOTP9 if Markus brings on cheezy animations in 10 or 11.

Again, I like the animated pitch (field) in SI's Football Manager (soccer sim), but I prefer "descriptive text" in a BB sim. In fact, I'd like to have a "user modified html file" for the play by play. Then people could really get carried away and the play by play might (or could) be magnificient!

[kckid4u]

Originally Posted by Beach23BoyP

I used to like sound, but mine quit working with the 6.5a update. I then realized that I never missed or wanted it again. I now listen to a radio talk show, music or I watch an old western movie.

It will be easy to turn the sound off, but I worry about graphical screens in OOTP future. I guess I could always stop at OOTP9 if Markus brings on cheezy animations in 10 or 11.

Again, I like the animated pitch (field) in SI's Football Manager (soccer sim), but I prefer "descriptive text" in a BB sim. In fact, I'd like to have a "user modified html file" for the play by play. Then people could really get carried away and the play by play might (or could) be magnificient!

All we're talking about is simple ball flight. That's all. I'd be willing to bet if you played the puresim demo and saw how it works in their game, you'd change your mind about ball flight. The OOTP series of games are far better than puresim in every way, except puresim does have ball flight, and that's about the only thing I'd like to see OOTP use too.

Until you've seen it in action, don't knock it.

[Beach23BoyP]

Originally Posted by kckid4u

All we're talking about is simple ball flight. That's all. I'd be willing to bet if you played the puresim demo and saw how it works in their game, you'd change your mind about ball flight. The OOTP series of games are far better than puresim in every way, except puresim does have ball flight, and that's about the only thing I'd like to see OOTP use too.

Until you've seen it in action, don't knock it.

I've played PureSim is since its alpha days. Beta tested every version. I designed two user interfaces for it. And I adapted "sound" to its interface.

I know all about PS and ball flight.

[kckid4u]

If thats true....Then what in the world would you have against OOTP having the option to use it?

[Beach23BoyP]

Originally Posted by kckid4u

If thats true....Then what in the world would you have against OOTP having the option to use it?

Cause I wanta keep OOTP pure. No cheezy animations.