THEM vs US - Page 2

Doibhilin · 06-02-2006, 04:31 PM

For the most part, I'm a "happy." Love the new interface, love the depth, love the scouting system. Still, I've encountered a lot of bugs (the game actually is unplayable for me after about half an hour, as it begins using 99% of my CPU) and I am looking forward to the first patch.

I don't think the game is regressing, I do think it's leagues above OOTP 6.5, and I think a lot of people are overreacting to changes. At the same time, I sympathize with a lot of the unhappy posters who really are being treated poorly.

Quote:

Those who post their complaints cannot expect not to get disagreement from someone. There is no right on this board to post your issues without someone disagreeing with you on the point. To cry "it's my right to express my opinion" does nothing more than feed the flames that you don't really care about discussing the issue or getting all points of view; it implies you only care what you think and those that agree with you.

There's a difference between disagreeing with somebody and explicitly saying that their opinion is moot because of their personal characteristics. And, unfortunately, not all of the "fanboys" express their disagreement in a civil fashion, even though SI and the beta testers have been incredibly patient.

Caporegime · 06-02-2006, 05:12 PM

I'm not surprised by the divisiveness on these boards. It was that way around here before the game's release, so why should things be any different now?

Anyway, at the risk of being branded a "fanboy" myself, I personally love the added complexity of the game. The new scouting system is my favorite amongst the new features, and the FM-style world database (scrubs from Uganda...weeeee) is a hoot to play around with. Creating a fictional baseball "universe", while time consuming, is a game in itself.

I agree with those who argue that the new interface is a little overwhelming at first. It's taken me two days to get used to it...and I still don't know where everything is! However, it's nothing that can't be remedied by merely playing the game. I'm sure that in a couple of the weeks it will fit like an old shoe, and most of us will wonder how we ever settled for anything less in the past.

I also miss the star ratings, but I can get used to living without them. They were notoriously inaccurate any way. If I had a grain of sand for every time I mistakenly took a player's star ratings as gospel and got screwed I'd have my own private beach.

Giants44 · 06-02-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caporegime

I'm not surprised by the divisiveness on these boards. It was that way around here before the game's release, so why should things be any different now?

Before release no, but past versions the boards have been overwhelmingly positive relative to the game. You never saw this level of discontent on the old versions.

There are a lot of long time OOTPers who are not happy and that is new.

<Pion> · 06-02-2006, 06:29 PM

I disagree. Though it's upset a lot of long time OOTPers, there's always been a lot of people unhappy with every new version I've seen (starting with OOTP3). Every release has these threads in common:

o What the heck did the beta testers do? They sure didn't find the bugs
o I want my money back, how do I get it
o This game won't work on the PC with my exact configuration
o FanBoy/Whiner attacks

kq76 · 06-02-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giants44

I think in the past few days this board has become clearly polarized.

On one hand we have those tagged as “fanboys” who for one reason or another really like the new game.

On the other hand we have the “whiners” who for one reason or another preferred the game the way it was, but were looking for improvements.

The happy people see the nice new look, the depth, the potential and are happy.

The un-happy people notice all the things that have been taken out and the lack of improvement on long term issues and are unhappy.

...

I think a lot of people are somewhere in the middle. I know I am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claymore

Why the beta tester pool was not increased towards the end still boggles my mind.

It was. Maybe not by enough, maybe not soon enough, maybe not the right people, but it was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Petersen

I played no. 5 with a buddie forever, then 5.5...

5.5? I must have missed that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giants44

Before release no, but past versions the boards have been overwhelmingly positive relative to the game. You never saw this level of discontent on the old versions.

There are a lot of long time OOTPers who are not happy and that is new.

I think the reaction has actually been better this time around, but maybe I'm just not remembering things very well. What I do think is probably a bit disconcerting is that some long long time customers like yourself and Cooleyvol are not happy and I'm sure SI wants you to be and will do their best to make that happen.

Giants44 · 06-03-2006, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

I think a lot of people are somewhere in the middle. I know I am.

It was. Maybe not by enough, maybe not soon enough, maybe not the right people, but it was.

5.5? I must have missed that one.

I think the reaction has actually been better this time around, but maybe I'm just not remembering things very well. What I do think is probably a bit disconcerting is that some long long time customers like yourself and Cooleyvol are not happy and I'm sure SI wants you to be and will do their best to make that happen.

STOP - Your overwhelming calm rational comments have no place on a board like this!

In all seriousness kq76 - you have made a lot of good and balanced comments over the past 3 days - I would absolutely agree you have found a good balance between happy and unhappy.

canadiancreed · 06-03-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giants44

STOP - Your overwhelming calm rational comments have no place on a board like this!

Indeed. How else are you going to have multiple threads locked rant....I mean....discussing the same issue over and over again with am increasingly more beligerant tone? Damn n00bs

Joe Canadian · 06-03-2006, 01:42 AM

FWIW I think the game is playable... I just can't play it, because the feature I really want to use, Modifiers & Equivalencies, is a mystery to most people. And I'm not saying that feature doesn't work, it's just I don't know how to work it properly to get the results I want.

Overall, though, once the above problem gets ironed out... the game will be immensly enjoyable to me.

Le Grande Orange · 06-03-2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <Pion>

I disagree. Though it's upset a lot of long time OOTPers, there's always been a lot of people unhappy with every new version I've seen (starting with OOTP3). Every release has these threads in common:

o What the heck did the beta testers do? They sure didn't find the bugs
o I want my money back, how do I get it
o This game won't work on the PC with my exact configuration
o FanBoy/Whiner attacks

I believe this falls under the heading of "the more things change, the more they stay the same."

jbsnadb · 06-03-2006, 05:37 AM

I've noticed that, judging by some post counts, that most of the major dissent has been from those seemingly new to this board.

There have been a number of posts I've seen complaining about issues brought up many times in the last few months, both by community members and the M's (my favotite being the poster who flamed the game for having no pitch-by-pitch feature, because everytime they hit 'enter' the at-bat was over!).

I am by no means calling these people n00bs (just new to the forums) and I'm sure many have been around OOTP for awhile. myself, I was a Season Ticket Baseball owner, but I only became active here in the last few months.

I am also a veteran of EHM (many, MANY hours) and FM (to a lesser extent), and even I am a bit overwhelmed by everything there is to do and see. That's one of the main reasons why I have decided to start as a AA manager, to ease myself into things.

I think it's only fair that we ALL give the game (and ourselves) time to settle down. I can see the points of both sides (especially considering my game crashed after four straight hours of play, wiping out a good stretch for my BaySox team).

Are there bugs? Yes. Should more have been squashed before releae? Surely, if the beta testers came across them. There are some things that are tough to replicate. I had a game crash when a batter struck out, the ball got away from the catcher, and he was safe at first. Who knew that would happen?

My point is...we all just need to sit back, chill and play some baseball.

84Hammy · 06-03-2006, 08:54 AM

In the original post in this thread giants complained about "forced pitch by pitch". I have played exactly two full games of the new version (after spending a few hours setting up my universe) and I played both of those games EXACTLY as I did OOTP 6.5: Sim to the 6th inning, and then sim each subsequent at bat until the end.

canadiancreed · 06-03-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I believe this falls under the heading of "the more things change, the more they stay the same."

hear hear.

and jbsnadb, good post. SOme folks dont' realize that while the game was made well, it's also made by humans. Humans are imperfect. Get used to it.

Syd Thrift · 06-03-2006, 12:49 PM

I don't think the dichotomy is between "this is the best OOTP ever" and "this game is terrible" either, because I think it's very clear that this is, if nothing else, by far the most ambitious version of OOTP ever made. The dichotomy IMO is "this game is terrible" vs "this game is perfect or nearly so". Seriously, if you're ranking OOTP 5 over the current version it's because you expect a lot more from the current version. It's kind of like the way people will talk about Madden 2001 as the best Madden ever. It was a nice game, and maybe improvements have leveled off (actually, I think the game got FAR better while Visual Concepts was competing, but that's just me), but clearly the latest Madden is a superior game to 2001.

This is a big, huge game and has a couple of big huge bugs that we probably should have expected. That being said, everybody seems to be doing an incredible job of tracking and logging them and hopefully that means they won't linger the way they did in prior versions (remember the catcher bug in OOTP 5 where the player creation logarithms would make catchers the greatest doubles-hitters in the league?).

Giants44 · 06-03-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84Hammy

In the original post in this thread giants complained about "forced pitch by pitch". I have played exactly two full games of the new version (after spending a few hours setting up my universe) and I played both of those games EXACTLY as I did OOTP 6.5: Sim to the 6th inning, and then sim each subsequent at bat until the end.

the forced pitch by pitch is relative to the strategic decisions and has been pretty well documented.

If you want to bunt, steal hit and run, etc - you must either do it on the first pitch or play pitch by pitch for that at-bat. The ability to give the steal sign and have it carried out in the at-bat (well sometimes) in the old version is no longer available.

Is the hybrid pitch-by-pitch solution more "real" - absolutely!!

However is it also more time consuming - yes!

what I and others have asked for his the OPTION to play the new way or the old way.

I know for me personally – there would be times (like playoff games) when I would want to use the full pitch by pitch or hybrid option – other times I just want to play a game in 12 minutes.

Options, Customization and flexibility have always been the core strength of OOTP IMO.

06-02-2006, 05:12 PM	#22
Caporegime All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Borough of Kings Posts: 1,713	I'm not surprised by the divisiveness on these boards. It was that way around here before the game's release, so why should things be any different now? Anyway, at the risk of being branded a "fanboy" myself, I personally love the added complexity of the game. The new scouting system is my favorite amongst the new features, and the FM-style world database (scrubs from Uganda...weeeee) is a hoot to play around with. Creating a fictional baseball "universe", while time consuming, is a game in itself. I agree with those who argue that the new interface is a little overwhelming at first. It's taken me two days to get used to it...and I still don't know where everything is! However, it's nothing that can't be remedied by merely playing the game. I'm sure that in a couple of the weeks it will fit like an old shoe, and most of us will wonder how we ever settled for anything less in the past. I also miss the star ratings, but I can get used to living without them. They were notoriously inaccurate any way. If I had a grain of sand for every time I mistakenly took a player's star ratings as gospel and got screwed I'd have my own private beach. __________________ "If you don't know where you are going, you'll wind up someplace else." - Lawrence Peter Berra

06-03-2006, 01:42 AM	#28
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	FWIW I think the game is playable... I just can't play it, because the feature I really want to use, Modifiers & Equivalencies, is a mystery to most people. And I'm not saying that feature doesn't work, it's just I don't know how to work it properly to get the results I want. Overall, though, once the above problem gets ironed out... the game will be immensly enjoyable to me. __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos.

06-02-2006, 06:29 PM	#24
<Pion> All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,428	I disagree. Though it's upset a lot of long time OOTPers, there's always been a lot of people unhappy with every new version I've seen (starting with OOTP3). Every release has these threads in common: o What the heck did the beta testers do? They sure didn't find the bugs o I want my money back, how do I get it o This game won't work on the PC with my exact configuration o FanBoy/Whiner attacks

06-03-2006, 05:37 AM	#30
jbsnadb All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,098	I've noticed that, judging by some post counts, that most of the major dissent has been from those seemingly new to this board. There have been a number of posts I've seen complaining about issues brought up many times in the last few months, both by community members and the M's (my favotite being the poster who flamed the game for having no pitch-by-pitch feature, because everytime they hit 'enter' the at-bat was over!). I am by no means calling these people n00bs (just new to the forums) and I'm sure many have been around OOTP for awhile. myself, I was a Season Ticket Baseball owner, but I only became active here in the last few months. I am also a veteran of EHM (many, MANY hours) and FM (to a lesser extent), and even I am a bit overwhelmed by everything there is to do and see. That's one of the main reasons why I have decided to start as a AA manager, to ease myself into things. I think it's only fair that we ALL give the game (and ourselves) time to settle down. I can see the points of both sides (especially considering my game crashed after four straight hours of play, wiping out a good stretch for my BaySox team). Are there bugs? Yes. Should more have been squashed before releae? Surely, if the beta testers came across them. There are some things that are tough to replicate. I had a game crash when a batter struck out, the ball got away from the catcher, and he was safe at first. Who knew that would happen? My point is...we all just need to sit back, chill and play some baseball.

06-03-2006, 08:54 AM	#31
84Hammy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Stinky Windsor Posts: 919	In the original post in this thread giants complained about "forced pitch by pitch". I have played exactly two full games of the new version (after spending a few hours setting up my universe) and I played both of those games EXACTLY as I did OOTP 6.5: Sim to the 6th inning, and then sim each subsequent at bat until the end.

06-03-2006, 12:49 PM	#33
Syd Thrift Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,676	I don't think the dichotomy is between "this is the best OOTP ever" and "this game is terrible" either, because I think it's very clear that this is, if nothing else, by far the most ambitious version of OOTP ever made. The dichotomy IMO is "this game is terrible" vs "this game is perfect or nearly so". Seriously, if you're ranking OOTP 5 over the current version it's because you expect a lot more from the current version. It's kind of like the way people will talk about Madden 2001 as the best Madden ever. It was a nice game, and maybe improvements have leveled off (actually, I think the game got FAR better while Visual Concepts was competing, but that's just me), but clearly the latest Madden is a superior game to 2001. This is a big, huge game and has a couple of big huge bugs that we probably should have expected. That being said, everybody seems to be doing an incredible job of tracking and logging them and hopefully that means they won't linger the way they did in prior versions (remember the catcher bug in OOTP 5 where the player creation logarithms would make catchers the greatest doubles-hitters in the league?).