Are you ok with OOTP11 not having any more patches? - Page 11

Bristolduke · 09-30-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Group D is important of course but there is not a software product on this Earth that is sold and has no bugs in it that need to be quashed from time to time.

In an absolute sense this is true, but there are companies whose defect rate is very low. You probably don't realize but your car has 60+ processors and over 10,000,000,000 (yes 10 billion) lines of code. They are very close to zero defects in their development, not that a baseball game needs quite the same rate. Also a bug is not a crash, just in an incorrect response, so you can't measure solely on crashes.

The Real MD · 09-30-2010, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Mal has been using an alias to form a 'crowd' in agreement for some time.

I really don't think Mal uses any aliases.

Muzamba · 09-30-2010, 09:57 PM

In all honesty, I'll have to admit that D (new features) is the primary reason I purchase new versions of OOTP each year and I would be extremely surprised if that wasn't the most common response.

Here's why I say this...

First, I don't believe most online leagues would generally upgrade if there weren't enough new features to justify insisting that all league members purchase a copy of the new version.

As for the other poll options...

My second answer would be F (updated rosters), even though I play more with fictional than real MLB players. I suppose this would be a major reason for many customers to continually buy new versions, but I'm not sure that many would pay $40 just for updated rosters/ratings. I seriously doubt that I would.

In all honesty, both A and G apply every year for me, because I truly would buy a new version even if it had a minimal number of new features. In fact, I have bought several versions that I really didn't think offered much in the way of new features. However, that's only because of the promise that new features (hopefully the ones I want the most) will eventually be added if the franchise survives long enough. And I doubt others would continue to support OOTP unless they saw potential for improvement in future versions, either. What would be the point?

While I certainly understand and respect those who feel there are too many legacy bugs and other unaddressed issues, I must confess that I don't personally notice them enough for it to be a major factor for me. Don't get me wrong, though. Regardless of whether or not a certain bug happens to "bug" me personally, I absolutely want to see all bugs eventually fixed. I recognize that if there are enough bugs that negatively affect enough users, some (perhaps even many) may stop buying OOTP. And if that happens, the franchise (and my dreams for new features) may go up in flames. So I do support any effort on Markus' part to ultimately squish all of these annoying little pests.

However, please understand that some of us - as hard as it may be for some of you to accept - ARE actually more concerned with the addition of new features than exterminating random bugs. And contrary to the sentiments certain community members have expressed in this thread, neither faction is wrong. We merely have a difference of opinion.

Granted, each side will continue to lobby Markus to devote attention to our particular cause, and Markus will no doubt continue to divide his efforts between fixing bugs and coding new features, just as he always has. And the most vocal advocates on each side of the fence will continue to criticize him for not focusing enough on what they want to see him focus on, just as they always have. And Markus will continue to churn out new versions year after year until he decides to move on to greener pastures. And he will continue to be lavished with much-deserved praise and accolades for consistently producing the best baseball sim in existence.

And while we should never allow him to be satisfied to rest on his laurels (not that I believe he ever would), we should all be grateful that he continues to produce a game that provides so many of us with such intense gaming pleasure.

Sabermetric Baseball · 09-30-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristolduke

Having spent 40 years in the software development business (Yes an old geezer), Andreas is partly correct. If your product is to maintain a competive advantage, it must continue to grow.

"Competive" advantage? Who are OOTP's legitimate competitors? OOTP has cornered the market on baseball simulation, no one has even attempted to contend with the basic functionality that's existed in OOTP for 5+ versions. That's one of the main reasons new features should have a minimal effect on sales - the entire population of potential buyers is either loyalists or people hearing about the game for the first time. There's no competitor, it's either OOTP or no sim at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristolduke

F.(bolded) is a trap. If you really are about playing with current stats, then the Lahman files work just fine with OOTP 8 and it is a free version.

Good luck finding Bryce Harper and Jameson Taillon in the 2010 Lahman database! CubbyFan will certainly have them in the rosters that ship with OOTP 12.

Also, I haven't tested it with OOTP 11, but there used to be a lock preventing you from starting a historical league later than the year in which your version of OOTP was released, regardless of what years were in your database.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

So what I'm wondering is, how does proposing this poll demonstrate that Markus and Andreas ought to focus on bug-quashing?

It doesn't - it calls into question something that the OOTP team (or at least Andreas alone) seemed to assume was a given truth. No one has posted the poll, no one can say for sure what the answers would be. I was just suggesting that from what I've witnessed, I'm not sure "we need new features to reach sales targets" is a fact at all. As I hope I communicated, the results of the poll would be interesting and I could be completely wrong.

AirmenSmith · 09-30-2010, 11:17 PM

I would probably go with A & G since they are about the same. OOTP has been the most reliable game I have ever played. I have spent more time playing OOTP then I have playing any other game.

So if a bug fix only version was released, I would buy it because of customer loyalty. But I can tell you my interest in playing it would probably diminish real fast. I voted yes in this threads poll just because I don't come across any bugs the way I play the game.

No matter what happens with the game I will still purchase it every year because it is a great, entertaining, and stimulating game.

Killing Time · 09-30-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Oh come on guys, you do not have to leave just because something went wrong. In the end I'm all alone here with Markus

Please, take a deep breath, count to 10, have a break, forget what happened and come back.

I want my uncle to come back and me to go. My uncle wants me to stay and him to go. You want everyone to stay. The moderator who caused all this wants to go. What a cluster. Only the first and last are good ideas.

All this has got me pissed off. Not because of the board. Because since this crap started I'm not getting any free meals.

Stay out of everyones life moderators!

Andreas Raht · 10-01-2010, 03:47 AM

Bristolduke, please read the OOTP 11 reviews: GameSpot for example gave us a 7.5 for an "improved game" but they gave us an 8.0 for OOTP 10. We asked them: they actually punished us for not providing enough changes/new features.

Also, the poll and its results would not change much for me actually. The actual sales numbers are what counts. Let's make a deal: we'll release an 11.5 next year with bug fixes only. A perfect, bug free OOTP. If we don't reach our sales numbers, you give us the amount that we need for a living and to pay the business. If we earn more money than with OOTP 11, you get that amount. Deal?

Andreas Raht · 10-01-2010, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killing Time

I want my uncle to come back and me to go. My uncle wants me to stay and him to go. You want everyone to stay. The moderator who caused all this wants to go. What a cluster. Only the first and last are good ideas.

All this has got me pissed off. Not because of the board. Because since this crap started I'm not getting any free meals.

Stay out of everyones life moderators!

Back to topic, last warning.

Andreas Raht · 10-01-2010, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabermetric Baseball

Also, I haven't tested it with OOTP 11, but there used to be a lock preventing you from starting a historical league later than the year in which your version of OOTP was released, regardless of what years were in your database.

That used to be true some versions ago, but in OOTP 11 this lock does not exist.

Markus Heinsohn · 10-01-2010, 05:44 AM

Wow. I missed quite a party here. The satisfied & non-satisfied fans, dreaded 'legacy bugs' (why haven't I gotten a list of them yet? Do they even exist?), aliases that turn into drunk uncles & nephews, people saying goodbye. Good lord!

Anyway, let's get on topic. In fact, there will be another patch for OOTP 11, it is currently being tested. The reason though is not that we felt OOTP needed more bugfixes, but rather the introduction of some new features which potentially give the game more exposure (Facebook & Twitter support). However, I did fix a few bugs that popped up after the last patch was released.

In general, OOTP is incredibly bug-free for a game of its complexity. I am very proud of it and the people who help makes & test the game, and anyone who knows a bit about software development will share my opinion.

Zweiblumen · 10-01-2010, 07:10 AM

Since you ask about legacy bugs, here's one: almanac is always a year behind in writing the various awards into its pages. For some reason it never includes the awards from the most recently completed season into its pages. Same for player page leaderboards. This has been around since at least the last version, possibly prior to that.

How do I create a bug ticket?

Markus Heinsohn · 10-01-2010, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zweiblumen

Since you ask about legacy bugs, here's one: almanac is always a year behind in writing the various awards into its pages. For some reason it never includes the awards from the most recently completed season into its pages. Same for player page leaderboards. This has been around since at least the last version, possibly prior to that.

How do I create a bug ticket?

This is not a bug, but rather a matter of when the almanac is created. If it is created right after the playoffs, then it cannot include the awards, they have not been awarded yet.

You can create a ticket on support.ootpdevelopments.com

skunkle333 · 10-01-2010, 08:52 AM

Markus...

I look forward to the next patch. If you catch this could you give me some idea if either of my two 'hopes' could ever come true in some version of OOTP?

1. The ability to save a game in progress. I only play pitch by pitch and 90% of the time can't complete a game in one attempt.

2. Any chance someday on the main gameplay screen the actual historical year stats for the historical year you are playing could be shown?

Appreciate your creation and your time.

Sparrow · 10-01-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zweiblumen

Since you ask about legacy bugs, here's one: almanac is always a year behind in writing the various awards into its pages. For some reason it never includes the awards from the most recently completed season into its pages. Same for player page leaderboards. This has been around since at least the last version, possibly prior to that.

How do I create a bug ticket?

If I can chime in here. It is not that the almanac is behind, it's that awards aren't written into the history until preseason starts. You may think they should be (and I agree, I'd like to see all that written Dec 31st to give a complete end of year almanac) but it is definitely not a bug, but a design choice that you and I may disagree with.

I thought the leaderboards were up to date, as long as the almanac was generated after the off-season starts, but you have probably looked at it more recently than I have, so I would default to you. If true, I imagine it is for the same reason as above.

Sabermetric Baseball · 10-01-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Also, the poll and its results would not change much for me actually. The actual sales numbers are what counts. Let's make a deal: we'll release an 11.5 next year with bug fixes only. A perfect, bug free OOTP. If we don't reach our sales numbers, you give us the amount that we need for a living and to pay the business. If we earn more money than with OOTP 11, you get that amount. Deal?

Call it "12" instead of "11.5" and I actually would make that deal. You don't even need to include the bug fixes really.

1998 Yankees · 10-02-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Wow. I missed quite a party here.

The ONE positive thing about this thread (other than announcing your decision to release another patch, of course) was this:

You have a heck of a lot of people who care about, who are downright passionate about, OOTPB. When it gets a bit zany, like it did here, that's something to keep in mind.

BusterKing · 10-02-2010, 06:26 PM

I have a tendency to make trades that brings the "best" out of people.

The fact that we are getting a final final patch was all worth it!

actionjackson · 10-02-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

I have a tendency to make trades that brings the "best" out of people.

The fact that we are getting a final final patch was all worth it!

I tip my Jays cap in your general direction sir and thank you for starting one of the more "interesting", and in the end productive, threads that I've seen on these boards. The only thing it was missing (I think) was dwarf tossing and hobbits. As 1998 Yankees/DejaBru (never know what to call you man) said, it demonstrated the passion that people have for this game...Uh...Among other things.

Markus Heinsohn · 10-03-2010, 08:10 AM

Ok, this thread is old news now. Closed

View Poll Results: Are you ok with not having anymore patches for OOTP11?
YES	120	68.97%
NO	54	31.03%
Voters: 174. You may not vote on this poll

09-30-2010, 09:57 PM	#203
Muzamba Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,325	In all honesty, I'll have to admit that D (new features) is the primary reason I purchase new versions of OOTP each year and I would be extremely surprised if that wasn't the most common response. Here's why I say this... First, I don't believe most online leagues would generally upgrade if there weren't enough new features to justify insisting that all league members purchase a copy of the new version. As for the other poll options... My second answer would be F (updated rosters), even though I play more with fictional than real MLB players. I suppose this would be a major reason for many customers to continually buy new versions, but I'm not sure that many would pay $40 just for updated rosters/ratings. I seriously doubt that I would. In all honesty, both A and G apply every year for me, because I truly would buy a new version even if it had a minimal number of new features. In fact, I have bought several versions that I really didn't think offered much in the way of new features. However, that's only because of the promise that new features (hopefully the ones I want the most) will eventually be added if the franchise survives long enough. And I doubt others would continue to support OOTP unless they saw potential for improvement in future versions, either. What would be the point? While I certainly understand and respect those who feel there are too many legacy bugs and other unaddressed issues, I must confess that I don't personally notice them enough for it to be a major factor for me. Don't get me wrong, though. Regardless of whether or not a certain bug happens to "bug" me personally, I absolutely want to see all bugs eventually fixed. I recognize that if there are enough bugs that negatively affect enough users, some (perhaps even many) may stop buying OOTP. And if that happens, the franchise (and my dreams for new features) may go up in flames. So I do support any effort on Markus' part to ultimately squish all of these annoying little pests. However, please understand that some of us - as hard as it may be for some of you to accept - ARE actually more concerned with the addition of new features than exterminating random bugs. And contrary to the sentiments certain community members have expressed in this thread, neither faction is wrong. We merely have a difference of opinion. Granted, each side will continue to lobby Markus to devote attention to our particular cause, and Markus will no doubt continue to divide his efforts between fixing bugs and coding new features, just as he always has. And the most vocal advocates on each side of the fence will continue to criticize him for not focusing enough on what they want to see him focus on, just as they always have. And Markus will continue to churn out new versions year after year until he decides to move on to greener pastures. And he will continue to be lavished with much-deserved praise and accolades for consistently producing the best baseball sim in existence. And while we should never allow him to be satisfied to rest on his laurels (not that I believe he ever would), we should all be grateful that he continues to produce a game that provides so many of us with such intense gaming pleasure. __________________ "It may be nothing. But it usually is always something and more than something." - Cardinals GM John Mozeliak

09-30-2010, 11:17 PM	#205
AirmenSmith Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 2,094	I would probably go with A & G since they are about the same. OOTP has been the most reliable game I have ever played. I have spent more time playing OOTP then I have playing any other game. So if a bug fix only version was released, I would buy it because of customer loyalty. But I can tell you my interest in playing it would probably diminish real fast. I voted yes in this threads poll just because I don't come across any bugs the way I play the game. No matter what happens with the game I will still purchase it every year because it is a great, entertaining, and stimulating game. __________________ Come join me on my Twitch Channel for gaming at its excellence Twitch Link

10-01-2010, 03:47 AM	#207
Andreas Raht Administrator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hollern/Stade/Germany Posts: 8,992	Bristolduke, please read the OOTP 11 reviews: GameSpot for example gave us a 7.5 for an "improved game" but they gave us an 8.0 for OOTP 10. We asked them: they actually punished us for not providing enough changes/new features. Also, the poll and its results would not change much for me actually. The actual sales numbers are what counts. Let's make a deal: we'll release an 11.5 next year with bug fixes only. A perfect, bug free OOTP. If we don't reach our sales numbers, you give us the amount that we need for a living and to pay the business. If we earn more money than with OOTP 11, you get that amount. Deal? __________________ Andreas Raht andreas@ootpdevelopments.com Out of the Park Developments

10-01-2010, 05:44 AM	#210
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	Wow. I missed quite a party here. The satisfied & non-satisfied fans, dreaded 'legacy bugs' (why haven't I gotten a list of them yet? Do they even exist?), aliases that turn into drunk uncles & nephews, people saying goodbye. Good lord! Anyway, let's get on topic. In fact, there will be another patch for OOTP 11, it is currently being tested. The reason though is not that we felt OOTP needed more bugfixes, but rather the introduction of some new features which potentially give the game more exposure (Facebook & Twitter support). However, I did fix a few bugs that popped up after the last patch was released. In general, OOTP is incredibly bug-free for a game of its complexity. I am very proud of it and the people who help makes & test the game, and anyone who knows a bit about software development will share my opinion. __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

10-01-2010, 07:10 AM	#211
Zweiblumen Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 326	Since you ask about legacy bugs, here's one: almanac is always a year behind in writing the various awards into its pages. For some reason it never includes the awards from the most recently completed season into its pages. Same for player page leaderboards. This has been around since at least the last version, possibly prior to that. How do I create a bug ticket?

10-01-2010, 08:52 AM	#213
skunkle333 All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2006 Location: St. Louis metro area...IL side. Posts: 643	Markus... I look forward to the next patch. If you catch this could you give me some idea if either of my two 'hopes' could ever come true in some version of OOTP? 1. The ability to save a game in progress. I only play pitch by pitch and 90% of the time can't complete a game in one attempt. 2. Any chance someday on the main gameplay screen the actual historical year stats for the historical year you are playing could be shown? Appreciate your creation and your time. __________________ Today is the first day of the rest of your life. Adjust accordingly. Don't forget to try PStrickert's great 1959 World Series Quickstart Mod for V12 & V11 !! At Padresfan's site.

10-02-2010, 06:26 PM	#217
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,436	I have a tendency to make trades that brings the "best" out of people. The fact that we are getting a final final patch was all worth it!

10-03-2010, 08:10 AM	#219
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	Ok, this thread is old news now. Closed __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android