MLB Service Time (days)

theblackadder · 04-11-2004, 05:22 AM

Hi everyone, first time poster here. I was wondering if anyone knows what the official MLB qualification is for one MLB Service year, i.e. how many days on the 40 Man or active roster constitutes a full service year.

On the screenshots for OOTP6, Markus seems to have set the default at 172 days...is this the MLB standard? Thanks anyone!

crackpott · 04-11-2004, 05:44 AM

Yes, it is 172 days on the major league roster. In addition to that, (not sure it relates to OOTP, but...) If a player spends 20 days or less of the season on optional assignment, the player is considered to have racked up a year of service time.

edit: I should also note that no more than 172 days of service time can be accumulated in a single year.

kq76 · 04-11-2004, 05:53 AM

I thought I'd point out the following article that backs up CP.

http://www.baseballprimer.com/articl...-07-04_0.shtml

Along with the ESPN article it links to, they explain pretty much everything there is to know about transactions.

EDIT: It's great to see OOTP6 finally counts service time correctly!

crackpott · 04-11-2004, 05:55 AM

pfft. I need sources to back me up now? I thought I was established as the weird financial rules know-it-all on the boards.

kq76 · 04-11-2004, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crackpott
pfft. I need sources to back me up now? I thought I was established as the weird financial rules know-it-all on the boards.

Well of course you are, but he does have only 1 post.

Kemp · 04-11-2004, 08:39 AM

How is "service time" actually defined? Is it number of days on the active roster during the season?

I'm just wondering for those of us who play with fairly short seasons.

kq76 · 04-11-2004, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kemp
How is "service time" actually defined? Is it number of days on the active roster during the season?

I'm just wondering for those of us who play with fairly short seasons.

"on the 40 man or active roster"

theblackadder · 04-11-2004, 12:18 PM

Thanks guys, lots of help!

I have another question, then, pertaining to this 172 days...say a player begins a year on the Major League roster and is sent down to AAA 90 days into the season...will that not count as a service year then? Will those 90 days be accumulated, i.e. the next time he plays 82 games in the Majors, he's now gotten to one service year, even if the 90 and the 82 were in different seasons?

crackpott · 04-11-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kq76
"on the 40 man or active roster"

Aw, crap. I'm pretty sure this isn't right. The Jays have a history of avoiding calling people up (Hudson, Phelps, etc) until later in the season in order to buy them another year of service time. If it counted when they were even on the 40-man roster, how would anyone get rookie of the year?

I may be wrong on this, as I've never seen it actually defined in my research, but I just can't see how service time on the 40-man roster would be logical.

KySteveH · 04-11-2004, 09:49 PM

To clarify (hopefully), you have to keep in mind that there are at least 3 different criteria we're working with here.

First, someone mentioned how we determine time for rookie awards. These are not dependent on service time at all, but some minimum number of PA or IP. So these award are really outside the scope of the CBA financial rules.

Second thing we count is service time on the 40-man roster. This one is pretty simple. If a player spends any time at all on the 40-man roster during the season, and is not on the 25-man roster, he has used an option year. So, if I purchase the contract of a AAA player on June 15, add him to the 25-man on June 20, then option him to AAA on August 15, he's used an option year. Normally, guys get added to the 40 only in the offseason, but partial years are counted as option years if they happen. BTW, "6-year" minor-league free agents are not affected by whether they are on the 40-man or not. That clock keeps running regardless.

Third thing we count is major league service time. You accumulate this, of course, by spending time on the 25-man roster, or the 15- or 60- day disabled lists. Major league service time is used to determine when a player is eligible for salary arb, free agency, and veteran status (can refuse minor-league assignment). As the screen shots show, 172 days is considered a full year. Unfortunately, it looks like the game might be counting time on the 40-man as major league service time, which would be wrong, accorsing to the CBA rules.

theblackadder · 04-11-2004, 09:54 PM

Thanks, that does help quite a bit. When you say 172 is considered a full year, do those 172 have to be all in the same year to make that one service year? Or do they accumulate?

KySteveH · 04-11-2004, 10:04 PM

They accumulate...So if I player has two full years, then spends 50 days in year 3, and 122 days in year four, he has exactly 3-years ML service time.

Oneida · 04-11-2004, 10:59 PM

Um, ok, can someone please explain to me what this "service year" stuff is

theblackadder · 04-11-2004, 11:02 PM

Got it. Thanks everyone.

Craig Scarborough · 04-12-2004, 12:44 AM

FYI, OOTP6 only counts days on the 25-man roster towards service time. Time spent on the 40-man roster, but optioned to the minors, does not count toward this figure.

-Craig

kq76 · 04-12-2004, 12:57 AM

Screenshot 7 seems to suggest that this is correct, even though it is contrary to what I posted above from screenshot 3. Screenshot 7 has a "Years of MLB Service" and "Years on 40 man Roster" with a different # of days. It looks like it's just worded poorly in screenshot 3, that 172 days constitutes a year in terms of MLB service or on the 40 man roster. I don't believe "service year" is a 40 man term. It might be good to clear this up so others don't wonder the same.

http://www.mirror1.ootpdevelopments....ns/screen7.jpg

EDIT: Or maybe it is (also a 40 man term), I don't know for sure. Nonetheless, it's usually good to eliminate any possible confusion.

rem · 04-12-2004, 01:03 AM

Arby vs Option?

Craig Scarborough · 04-12-2004, 01:12 AM

Just looked at screenshot #3, yeah, that's incorrect. The game is counting it correctly, but the "Advanced Option" is worded incorrectly. Thanks.

-Craig

kq76 · 04-12-2004, 01:30 AM

Re-reading the Transactions Primer I linked above, it seems that being on the 40 man is the same as having a major league contract, but that only being in the majors consitutes "major league service time". Perhaps it can be reworded something like, "Select the minimum number of days spent on a roster, in the majors or on the 40 man, to be counted as 1 year." This doesn't use the word service at all.

On screenshot 7, what exactly is meant by "Pro Service", majors and minors I take it? Edit: It must, but I was thinking that it might be nice to include the days as well seeing as how the other counts do.

Craig Scarborough · 04-12-2004, 01:59 AM

Correct, "pro service" is the player's time as a professional (either majors or minors).

I've personally been unable to uncover any mention of how many days it takes a for a year of "professional service". The CBA stipulates 172 days for a ML year, but I've seen nothing regarding a "professional year" in the CBA or the National Association Agreement. Therefore, we kept professional service as a increment of 1 for each year played.

Also, Crackpott mentioned the rule of optioning a player for <= 20 days not counting as an option year. For simplicity's sake, OOTP6 counts ANY time a player is optioned in a year as an option year.

-Craig

04-11-2004, 05:22 AM	#1
theblackadder Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 41	MLB Service Time (days) Hi everyone, first time poster here. I was wondering if anyone knows what the official MLB qualification is for one MLB Service year, i.e. how many days on the 40 Man or active roster constitutes a full service year. On the screenshots for OOTP6, Markus seems to have set the default at 172 days...is this the MLB standard? Thanks anyone!

04-11-2004, 05:44 AM	#2
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	Yes, it is 172 days on the major league roster. In addition to that, (not sure it relates to OOTP, but...) If a player spends 20 days or less of the season on optional assignment, the player is considered to have racked up a year of service time. edit: I should also note that no more than 172 days of service time can be accumulated in a single year. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

04-11-2004, 05:55 AM	#4
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	pfft. I need sources to back me up now? I thought I was established as the weird financial rules know-it-all on the boards. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

04-11-2004, 08:39 AM	#6
Kemp All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,181	How is "service time" actually defined? Is it number of days on the active roster during the season? I'm just wondering for those of us who play with fairly short seasons. Last edited by Kemp; 04-11-2004 at 08:41 AM.

04-11-2004, 09:49 PM	#10
KySteveH Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 266	To clarify (hopefully), you have to keep in mind that there are at least 3 different criteria we're working with here. First, someone mentioned how we determine time for rookie awards. These are not dependent on service time at all, but some minimum number of PA or IP. So these award are really outside the scope of the CBA financial rules. Second thing we count is service time on the 40-man roster. This one is pretty simple. If a player spends any time at all on the 40-man roster during the season, and is not on the 25-man roster, he has used an option year. So, if I purchase the contract of a AAA player on June 15, add him to the 25-man on June 20, then option him to AAA on August 15, he's used an option year. Normally, guys get added to the 40 only in the offseason, but partial years are counted as option years if they happen. BTW, "6-year" minor-league free agents are not affected by whether they are on the 40-man or not. That clock keeps running regardless. Third thing we count is major league service time. You accumulate this, of course, by spending time on the 25-man roster, or the 15- or 60- day disabled lists. Major league service time is used to determine when a player is eligible for salary arb, free agency, and veteran status (can refuse minor-league assignment). As the screen shots show, 172 days is considered a full year. Unfortunately, it looks like the game might be counting time on the 40-man as major league service time, which would be wrong, accorsing to the CBA rules. Last edited by KySteveH; 04-11-2004 at 10:05 PM.

04-11-2004, 05:53 AM	#3
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,773	I thought I'd point out the following article that backs up CP. http://www.baseballprimer.com/articl...-07-04_0.shtml Along with the ESPN article it links to, they explain pretty much everything there is to know about transactions. EDIT: It's great to see OOTP6 finally counts service time correctly! __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) Last edited by kq76; 04-11-2004 at 05:57 AM.

04-11-2004, 12:18 PM	#8
theblackadder Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 41	Thanks guys, lots of help! I have another question, then, pertaining to this 172 days...say a player begins a year on the Major League roster and is sent down to AAA 90 days into the season...will that not count as a service year then? Will those 90 days be accumulated, i.e. the next time he plays 82 games in the Majors, he's now gotten to one service year, even if the 90 and the 82 were in different seasons?

04-11-2004, 09:54 PM	#11
theblackadder Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 41	Thanks, that does help quite a bit. When you say 172 is considered a full year, do those 172 have to be all in the same year to make that one service year? Or do they accumulate?

04-11-2004, 10:04 PM	#12
KySteveH Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 266	They accumulate...So if I player has two full years, then spends 50 days in year 3, and 122 days in year four, he has exactly 3-years ML service time.

04-11-2004, 10:59 PM	#13
Oneida Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 253	Um, ok, can someone please explain to me what this "service year" stuff is

04-11-2004, 11:02 PM	#14
theblackadder Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 41	Got it. Thanks everyone.

04-12-2004, 12:44 AM	#15
Craig Scarborough All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 551	FYI, OOTP6 only counts days on the 25-man roster towards service time. Time spent on the 40-man roster, but optioned to the minors, does not count toward this figure. -Craig

04-12-2004, 12:57 AM	#16
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,773	Screenshot 7 seems to suggest that this is correct, even though it is contrary to what I posted above from screenshot 3. Screenshot 7 has a "Years of MLB Service" and "Years on 40 man Roster" with a different # of days. It looks like it's just worded poorly in screenshot 3, that 172 days constitutes a year in terms of MLB service or on the 40 man roster. I don't believe "service year" is a 40 man term. It might be good to clear this up so others don't wonder the same. http://www.mirror1.ootpdevelopments....ns/screen7.jpg EDIT: Or maybe it is (also a 40 man term), I don't know for sure. Nonetheless, it's usually good to eliminate any possible confusion. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) Last edited by kq76; 04-12-2004 at 01:07 AM.

04-12-2004, 01:03 AM	#17
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	Arby vs Option? __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

04-12-2004, 01:12 AM	#18
Craig Scarborough All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 551	Just looked at screenshot #3, yeah, that's incorrect. The game is counting it correctly, but the "Advanced Option" is worded incorrectly. Thanks. -Craig

04-12-2004, 01:30 AM	#19
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,773	Re-reading the Transactions Primer I linked above, it seems that being on the 40 man is the same as having a major league contract, but that only being in the majors consitutes "major league service time". Perhaps it can be reworded something like, "Select the minimum number of days spent on a roster, in the majors or on the 40 man, to be counted as 1 year." This doesn't use the word service at all. On screenshot 7, what exactly is meant by "Pro Service", majors and minors I take it? Edit: It must, but I was thinking that it might be nice to include the days as well seeing as how the other counts do. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) Last edited by kq76; 04-12-2004 at 01:45 AM.

04-12-2004, 01:59 AM	#20
Craig Scarborough All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 551	Correct, "pro service" is the player's time as a professional (either majors or minors). I've personally been unable to uncover any mention of how many days it takes a for a year of "professional service". The CBA stipulates 172 days for a ML year, but I've seen nothing regarding a "professional year" in the CBA or the National Association Agreement. Therefore, we kept professional service as a increment of 1 for each year played. Also, Crackpott mentioned the rule of optioning a player for <= 20 days not counting as an option year. For simplicity's sake, OOTP6 counts ANY time a player is optioned in a year as an option year. -Craig