Stopper question

[AstroDeke]

I noticed in OOTP 27 when the AI controls the pitching staff, it no longer uses the closer rating by default. It now uses the stopper rating. These two ratings are not the same. Closers typically enter a game in the 9th inning and occasionally in the 8th. Whereas stoppers may enter a game in the 6th and 7th innings to put down an opponent rally.

Does anyone have any idea why the stopper rating is now the default and how to get the AI to use the closer rating instead.

[snepp]

What is your league strategy setting for close usage frequency? If it's set lower managers will be more likely to use the stopper role.

Managers have their own individual rating for closer use as well, but I don't know how impactful it is compared to the global strategy setting.

[AstroDeke]

Originally Posted by snepp

What is your league strategy setting for close usage frequency? If it's set lower managers will be more likely to use the stopper role.

Managers have their own individual rating for closer use as well, but I don't know how impactful it is compared to the global strategy setting.

I'm not familiar with the settings you mention as I've never seen it or needed to do that. If you can point me in the right direction, I would really appreciate it.

[snepp]

League Settings -> Stats & AI -> Left panel under general strategic tendencies -> Use of Closers

Modern day would be "very often", it's the default starting sometime in the early '90's. I don't think I've ever seen the stopper role used when set to very often.

[BaseballATeam]

fwiw, Stopper usage will probably result in better bullpen outcomes for the cpu. I figure bullpen management accounts for a 5-10 win discrepancy between me and the cpu. A Stopper will generally throw 100 innings, most of them high leverage. A closer usually throws about 65 innings with a lower ratio of high-leverage frames.

[AstroDeke]

Originally Posted by BaseballATeam

fwiw, Stopper usage will probably result in better bullpen outcomes for the cpu. I figure bullpen management accounts for a 5-10 win discrepancy between me and the cpu. A Stopper will generally throw 100 innings, most of them high leverage. A closer usually throws about 65 innings with a lower ratio of high-leverage frames.

For me a stopper should be inserted in the game when opposing team is making a rally and threatening to tie or take the lead in a game and you want to hold the lead. Typically, this would be done in 5th, 6th or possible the 7th innings as you would usually have setup guys for the 7th and 8th. But with a 13-pitcher limit, you're kind of hampered by the understanding that you may have some tired relievers.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by snepp

League Settings -> Stats & AI -> Left panel under general strategic tendencies -> Use of Closers

Modern day would be "very often", it's the default starting sometime in the early '90's. I don't think I've ever seen the stopper role used when set to very often.

In past versions League Strategy would have Use of Closers changed from the "default" Very Often to Sometimes. Otherwise I've never seen the AI use the Stoper role outside of historical strategy settings

Using a Stopper in modern games can result in some great stats. Stoppers like the Knuckleballer can be a bit OP at times

[BaseballATeam]

Originally Posted by AstroDeke

For me a stopper should be inserted in the game when opposing team is making a rally and threatening to tie or take the lead in a game and you want to hold the lead. Typically, this would be done in 5th, 6th or possible the 7th innings as you would usually have setup guys for the 7th and 8th. But with a 13-pitcher limit, you're kind of hampered by the understanding that you may have some tired relievers.

That's not how I (or the game) view a stopper. If you're bullpen has a closer, two setup men, and one or more stoppers, you're talking about an elite unit. As "elite" is a comparative term, what you describe cannot be the norm. The Padres are set up like this. The Phillies and Dodgers probably have the next-best units and lack the personnel.

To me, a Stopper is your best reliever, an elite luxury weapon you trust to get the biggest outs in a game. This role usually only exists on teams that have a good closer in place.

In OOTP parlance, the Stopper just about only enters in the 7th or 8th inning, and he often throws two innings. Among OOTP reliever roles, only the Mop Up man throws more innings.

(hot tip, if you can put a good, high-stamina reliever on mop up duty, you'll be rewarded. Don't use the role if you can only dedicate a bad reliever to it...it'll cost you wins.)

[kq76]

Originally Posted by AstroDeke

For me a stopper should be inserted in the game when opposing team is making a rally and threatening to tie or take the lead in a game and you want to hold the lead. Typically, this would be done in 5th, 6th or possible the 7th innings as you would usually have setup guys for the 7th and 8th. But with a 13-pitcher limit, you're kind of hampered by the understanding that you may have some tired relievers.

I used to think of stoppers like this too. But I later found out that the common understanding is that that's more of a fireman, while a stopper is like a closer, they try to finish games, they just pitch more innings to do it is all. They do share some similarities in that they both often came in to at least fairly high leverage situations and they both tried to pitch multiple innings (firemen maybe less so). But I think there's definitely the distinction that stoppers tried to close games while with firemen it was more thought that someone else was probably going to end up finishing the game, they were there just to put out the immediate fire and maybe go a bit more.

Of course the term stoppers was also used for a SP who would end losing streaks, but that definition has fallen by the wayside.

[OutS|der]

In OOTPP when changing the League Strategy use of Closers to Sometimes the AI will use a Stopper role with the usage of 7th inning or Close game or 8th and or later lead.

No closer is used. Two Setup Men with one 7th or later and the other 6th or later

[jpeters1734]

If you want a "stopper" to enter in the 5th 6th or 7th innings to kill a rally, they should be set to Middle Relief, Use More Often with a High Leverage secondary role

[Pelican]

I think of a "Stopper" as a guy who comes in - often in the midst of a rally - when you really need a strikeout. You need a guy with great stuff, and (unless the bases are loaded), you aren't as worried about control. I set the strategy to allow the Stopper to be used before the ninth inning. Not every team has one. If your relievers behind your Closer are just mediocre to good, there might not be a Stopper there.


A Closer to me is a ninth-inning guy, who typically comes in to start the inning. So he does not typically inherit runners in the midst of a rally. Control is critical. You don't want baserunners. I like a Closer with high Movement, less likely to give up the long ball. And, in the modern game at least, a Closer gets one inning, period. After twenty-five pitches, I'd consider pulling him.

I have experimented with a true closer in historical seasons, when no such animal existed IRL. Again, if you have the right guy, it can be very effective. You're trading CG for Saves. A Stopper can also work in historical seasons; although back in the 1930's and 1920's teams were more likely to use a SP to put out the fire. Again, it helps to have the guy with great stuff but low Stamina in that role.