Catcher throwing left-handed

[Lithium]

My save has generated an international free agent who throws left-handed and his primary listed position is catcher. He's arguably more suited to the outfield, but his fielding ratings at catcher are ok-ish, 45-50. I know lefties won't gain position experience in the infield except at first base, but he already has a position rating here of 45.

I've never seen a catcher throwing left handed before - is he going to perform as well as an equivalent right hander would?

[kq76]

I thought this was an interesting question so I tested it.

I created a small fictional league then I had OOTP generate a young (16 y-o) catcher. I edited his handedness to lefty and then his catcher experience to 50 (out of 200 in the editor, 25/80) to make it the lowest it could while still showing up on the profile page. I made sure to put him on a rookie team (he wasn't at first) and I set him to force start at catcher.

I simmed a year and the game changed him to a RF and mainly played him in the OF (I hadn't taken over the team as I wanted to see if force starting him alone would work, and he had better ratings in the OF to start). His catcher rating did not change (he only played 3 games there so I'm not surprised), but his batting ratings improved (some be a good amount).

So I took over the team, forced him to start at catcher again, and simmed another year. By the end of that year his rating at catcher had jumped to 102 (/200, 35/80). That right there might answer your question. His batting ratings also improved some, except for contact.

I simmed another year and while he improved a bit more at C, it wasn't much. Considering his base catcher ratings (blocking, framing, arm), I kind of expected he would plateau sooner or later however. So I unlocked his position from C (he hadn't moved from Rookie ball and I figured that might be why and I was only in charge of the rookie team, not the parent club) and jacked his base catcher ratings all to 200 (/250).

I simmed to the next year and the AI moved him up a level (so maybe I was right, it held him back because I had him locked?), so I quit my job and took on that team and locked him at C again and simmed the remainder of the year. And this time he improved at C by a lot (75/80!), got promoted to AA, stayed as a catcher, and his batting ratings improved by a lot as well.

Whether they perform just as well as a righty is a difficult question to answer (I mean, other than if we were a dev, I don't think we could answer that question), but as for developing at catcher, they most certainly can.

And really, it's not impossible for a lefty to play catcher IRL, it's just a bit more difficult to cover home plate and to throw to the 2B and 3B when a RHB is there. I doubt OOTP would go through the trouble of penalizing them on those plays. IMO the real reason why we don't see them much IRL is simply because coaches just funnel them to other positions out of the thought that righties have a natural advantage there, it's not because they can't play decently enough there. But just imagine if you had a great hitting lefty who played a decent C, that'd be quite the advantage over a poor hitting righty at C!

The attachments are: before simming, after simming year 2, and after simming year 4. Notice the catcher rating improve.

[snepp]

The only real reason for no lefty catchers, is that there are no lefty catching mitts around when kids start playing. If there were it wouldn't be so strange as you'd have lefties scattered all over doing it.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by snepp

The only real reason for no lefty catchers, is that there are no lefty catching mitts around when kids start playing. If there were it wouldn't be so strange as you'd have lefties scattered all over doing it.

That begs the question.. why aren't there LH catching mitts? My best guess is even at little league age the first thing you want to see is if the LH player can pitch. If his arm is good enough for C one would think it's good enough to pitch. I've never bought into the argument that throws from C are easier for a right handed player. It's just there is much more value to a LH pitching as one progresses towards HS or travel ball.

Having said that as my son went through 6 years of little league, Jr. league, and Sr league there was a LH catcher. His dad was right handed, the team coach, and caught in HS. I think he wanted his son to catch. This is like 30+ years ago and I don't know if they special ordered his mitt or went to The Mall of America and found it in the huge sporting goods store they had back in the day?

[Bobfather]

Originally Posted by kq76

I thought this was an interesting question so I tested it.

I created a small fictional league then I had OOTP generate a young (16 y-o) catcher. I edited his handedness to lefty and then his catcher experience to 50 (out of 200 in the editor, 25/80) to make it the lowest it could while still showing up on the profile page. I made sure to put him on a rookie team (he wasn't at first) and I set him to force start at catcher.

I simmed a year and the game changed him to a RF and mainly played him in the OF (I hadn't taken over the team as I wanted to see if force starting him alone would work, and he had better ratings in the OF to start). His catcher rating did not change (he only played 3 games there so I'm not surprised), but his batting ratings improved (some be a good amount).

So I took over the team, forced him to start at catcher again, and simmed another year. By the end of that year his rating at catcher had jumped to 102 (/200, 35/80). That right there might answer your question. His batting ratings also improved some, except for contact.

I simmed another year and while he improved a bit more at C, it wasn't much. Considering his base catcher ratings (blocking, framing, arm), I kind of expected he would plateau sooner or later however. So I unlocked his position from C (he hadn't moved from Rookie ball and I figured that might be why and I was only in charge of the rookie team, not the parent club) and jacked his base catcher ratings all to 200 (/250).

I simmed to the next year and the AI moved him up a level (so maybe I was right, it held him back because I had him locked?), so I quit my job and took on that team and locked him at C again and simmed the remainder of the year. And this time he improved at C by a lot (75/80!), got promoted to AA, stayed as a catcher, and his batting ratings improved by a lot as well.

Whether they perform just as well as a righty is a difficult question to answer (I mean, other than if we were a dev, I don't think we could answer that question), but as for developing at catcher, they most certainly can.

And really, it's not impossible for a lefty to play catcher IRL, it's just a bit more difficult to cover home plate and to throw to the 2B and 3B when a RHB is there. I doubt OOTP would go through the trouble of penalizing them on those plays. IMO the real reason why we don't see them much IRL is simply because coaches just funnel them to other positions out of the thought that righties have a natural advantage there, it's not because they can't play decently enough there. But just imagine if you had a great hitting lefty who played a decent C, that'd be quite the advantage over a poor hitting righty at C!

The attachments are: before simming, after simming year 2, and after simming year 4. Notice the catcher rating improve.

What might be interesting is to create a catcher as above, but clone him so one is RH and one LH, and follow them both.

[jcard]

Originally Posted by Bobfather

What might be interesting is to create a catcher as above, but clone him so one is RH and one LH, and follow them both.

The reason for the lack of LHT catchers is the belief (accuracy can be debated) that they are at a disadvantage:

1. On tag plays at home.
2. Having to throw through the more frequently occupied (RHB) batter box.
3. Need to reposition feet on throws (steals or live action) to third.

[snepp]

I don't recall where I read it, but caught stealing percentages are effectively identical between right handed and left handed hitters at the plate. So that one wouldn't even require a debate, it can be outright eliminated as pure myth.

[WhiskyTango]

Originally Posted by snepp

I don't recall where I read it, but caught stealing percentages are effectively identical between right handed and left handed hitters at the plate. So that one wouldn't even require a debate, it can be outright eliminated as pure myth.

There's no question that the standard gameplay "explanations" used for this phenonemon are always spurious. Another one is it's easier to pick off runners on 1B because they can throw around/behind a LHB.


However, I've never heard off-the-field reasons given that are as interesting as lack of LH gloves for little kids. I get the sense it could be as simple as that.


I wonder what other markets are like for LH'ers - like hockey goalie equipment. Can't see there being a huge market for LH goalies at the pee-wee level either, even less when considering they need two gloves.

[Bobfather]

Originally Posted by jcard

The reason for the lack of LHT catchers is the belief (accuracy can be debated) that they are at a disadvantage:

1. On tag plays at home.
2. Having to throw through the more frequently occupied (RHB) batter box.
3. Need to reposition feet on throws (steals or live action) to third.

I, not based on any evidence, think people forget something in these biases, that person has been left-handed and playing catcher his entire life, ok catcher for a lot of his life. He has learned to make these adjustments. Dustin Pedroia was supposed to be too small to play second base, but he won Gold Glove awards. Jim Abbott was only one-handed and threw a no-hitter. These biases are made by people who only know one way of doing things, about people who know a different way of doing things.

[krownroyal83]

"lefties won't gain position experience in the infield except at first base"

I didn't know that.

[snepp]

Originally Posted by Bobfather

I, not based on any evidence, think people forget something in these biases, that person has been left-handed and playing catcher his entire life, ok catcher for a lot of his life. He has learned to make these adjustments. Dustin Pedroia was supposed to be too small to play second base, but he won Gold Glove awards. Jim Abbott was only one-handed and threw a no-hitter. These biases are made by people who only know one way of doing things, about people who know a different way of doing things.

I think you're pretty on point, evidence or not.

There have been a LOT of terrible defensive catchers that have geared up for major league teams over the decades. There's no way in hell that a lefty with talent that put the work into his game wouldn't be at the very least as effective as those hacks.

Ryan Doumit was allowed to impersonate a catcher for 4,400 innings!

[Lithium]

Tested this out in a save with commissioner mode and I don't think being left handed will make any difference. Simmed a few seasons having edited some right-handed players to start throwing left handed, no discernible effect on any of their defensive numbers or resulting pitching numbers.
Not the biggest sample, but given the magnitude and immediacy of editing an infielder to be left-handed - they lose their position ratings straight away and perform very poorly no matter how good their defensive ratings are - I think it's fair to say it works very differently with catchers.