AI Trade Logic Makes No Deals Work

[aks62]

I strive for realistic trades in my save, whether involving superstars or minor swaps. Trades involving pieces of note are valued close enough to fair most of the time, but I've had a harder time lately in trying to acquire — and sell off — complementary pieces, 40-man casualties, or players of that ilk.

For example: I have a LHRP who's 47 OVR (20-80 scale, increments of 1 for OVR/POT, increments of 5 for individual ratings). He's 31, out of options, and I try to move him midway through spring training. I try to shop for prospects, knowing he likely won't net any back. He doesn't and that's to be expected, so I check the "regulars" and "veterans" boxes. I get offered three players total, all of whom are on overpaid contracts, and two of the three are multiyear. Even when I eat 100% of his contract (he's making the $740K minimum), only 2 additional players appear, both of whom are on worse multiyear contracts.

The same has happened for similar-caliber players on minor-league deals, or the AI won't trade anyone for them at all. Likewise, I can't find a way to acquire a sub-40 OVR AI player on the trade block without surrendering prospects at or above 50 POT. I even mocked up lopsided situations to see how far gone the AI is — I asked it for a 21-year-old 20 OVR/POT and offered both an 18-year-old 58 POT 1B prospect and four ~45 OVR prospects (i.e., no MLB experience and all of whom were at or under age 25) and the AI still insisted on wanting upper-tier talent for their scrub.

Adding players like this used to move the needle, even incrementally. I'm no longer finding that to be the case, and the money part doesn't seem to matter.

I'm attaching a screenshot of my AI trade settings. If anyone has advice, can share similar experiences, and/or explain a fix for either my ratings or file, I would greatly appreciate it. I don't want to log a bug without knowing whether it is one, but the asks just feel way too out of reach, especially for trades to improve at the margins.

[kq76]

I've experienced something similar. One of my yearly routines is to shop my excess veterans right before opening day. I had about 6 players to shop. All of them, but one, I got some decent prospects for (mid 30s to low 40s potential). One guy I got offered no prospects for, not even a low 20s prospect. Now that guy wasn't starter-calibre (the others weren't either), but I'd say he'd either be the backup catcher or a good 3rd catcher in the minors guy for most of the teams in the league. What I did get offered for him were several multi-player veteran packages, including one 4-player offer where one of the guys offered was arguably a better catcher than he was. I wasn't interested in any of the veteran deals as I have plenty of depth and I'm trying to boost my farm system. I'll continue to shop him and once some team's catcher gets injured I'll probably get something decent offered for him.

Anyway, it just seems like you'll either get offered some decent prospects or you won't get offered any at all. I wasn't looking for much, I would have taken a young prospect with a potential in the 20s. I'd just rather trade the guy than have him languishing in the minors (I have 2 young guys who will get playing time before he does).

Maybe the weirdest thing I noticed, however, was I'd sometimes get better offers when I unchecked the "allow AI to include additional players from your team". I mean, some of the same key players would be in the offers, but there might be an additional prospect offered to me if I was only willing to offer my one guy rather than multiple. That didn't make sense, especially since they were prospects, not some veteran with a big contract. I should have taken screenshots, but with the shop limit you can't always go back and look at the offers again.

My settings are similar to yours. The one key difference is mine favour prospects more than yours so my results should be worse than yours yet it doesn't sound like they are.

[mytreds]

You’ll probably have better success moving him (if that’s your end) by offering one or two additional players (the means).

[aks62]

Originally Posted by kq76

I've experienced something similar. One of my yearly routines is to shop my excess veterans right before opening day. I had about 6 players to shop. All of them, but one, I got some decent prospects for (mid 30s to low 40s potential). One guy I got offered no prospects for, not even a low 20s prospect. Now that guy wasn't starter-calibre (the others weren't either), but I'd say he'd either be the backup catcher or a good 3rd catcher in the minors guy for most of the teams in the league. What I did get offered for him were several multi-player veteran packages, including one 4-player offer where one of the guys offered was arguably a better catcher than he was. I wasn't interested in any of the veteran deals as I have plenty of depth and I'm trying to boost my farm system. I'll continue to shop him and once some team's catcher gets injured I'll probably get something decent offered for him.

Anyway, it just seems like you'll either get offered some decent prospects or you won't get offered any at all. I wasn't looking for much, I would have taken a young prospect with a potential in the 20s. I'd just rather trade the guy than have him languishing in the minors (I have 2 young guys who will get playing time before he does).

Maybe the weirdest thing I noticed, however, was I'd sometimes get better offers when I unchecked the "allow AI to include additional players from your team". I mean, some of the same key players would be in the offers, but there might be an additional prospect offered to me if I was only willing to offer my one guy rather than multiple. That didn't make sense, especially since they were prospects, not some veteran with a big contract. I should have taken screenshots, but with the shop limit you can't always go back and look at the offers again.

My settings are similar to yours. The one key difference is mine favour prospects more than yours so my results should be worse than yours yet it doesn't sound like they are.

I find that checkbox to be fairly useless, in my experience, so I almost always leave it unchecked. The AI generally hyperfocuses on adding one specific player whom I have no intention of trading, and that tends to be the case across all interested AI offers. So I try to stick to shopping these vets — near the end of ST, like what you do — for one player. I'd similarly take one prospect with a POT in the 20s or even a late-20s to mid-30s minors vet for depth. The AI doesn't seem to think that's worth its time, even when there is IRL precedent for such valuation.

I know that greater impact trades should be the priority in tinkering with valuation and I believe the game's realism already reflects that. But trades beyond the extremes — major prospect packages for superstars or trading away a valued player for such a package — are just as important, in my opinion. Without them, you don't have as great an ability to land a lottery ticket prospect or veteran who could blossom into an unexpected role player, or more. Guys like J.D. Martinez on the Tigers, Adolis Garcia on the Rangers, Jose Alvarado and Cristopher Sanchez on the Phillies...all were acquired in (at the time) perceived mutually beneficial 40-man casualty deals that ended up being sneaky good wins for the teams mentioned.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by aks62

I find that checkbox to be fairly useless, in my experience, so I almost always leave it unchecked. The AI generally hyperfocuses on adding one specific player whom I have no intention of trading, and that tends to be the case across all interested AI offers. So I try to stick to shopping these vets — near the end of ST, like what you do — for one player.

Yeah, I'm tempted to ignore that button too, or at least until I read here that it's been improved. Oftentimes the extra player I'd be giving up was better than the first guy I was giving up and yet, if the AI didn't offer me a worse package like I already said, it'd only add some guy I really have no interest in, like a 24 year-old RH 1B with only AAA potential (the AI loves to offer me those guys).

There is the odd good deal that the AI will only offer you if you're willing to part with multiple players (I got a pretty good young SP for a MaL backup OF and a RP whom I didn't really want to part with), but they're far and few between. So it's probably worth it to still check it, just beware that you might get some better offers by unchecking it. It'd just be better, I think, if it didn't waste your time by offering you worse deals with it.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by aks62

The AI generally hyperfocuses on adding one specific player whom I have no intention of trading, and that tends to be the case across all interested AI offers.

Mark that player as "Untouchable" and that should stop the AI from trying to get him.

[Waswere]

"For example: I have a LHRP who's 47 OVR (20-80 scale, increments of 1 for OVR/POT, increments of 5 for individual ratings). He's 31, out of options, and I try to move him midway through spring training. I try to shop for prospects, knowing he likely won't net any back"

A 31 Year old 47 overall reliever has little to no trade value. Relivers overalls are pretty inflated so most good teams will have entire pens of relievers that are 50+.

You have a AAAA player with no options, why would any team give up anything of value for it.

At best you're getting a lottery ticket prospect with mid 30s potential that might get a favourable TCR boost or be mis-scouted, since you have it toggled a couple ticks above center for difficulty, the AI takes that minimal trade value and then makes it negative

[aks62]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Mark that player as "Untouchable" and that should stop the AI from trying to get him.

I do, but then the AI moves onto another. And another. And so on. So it just becomes frustrating to have to outsmart the AI instead of the AI being better equipped to ask for returns that would be more in line with reality. I acknowledge that's perhaps wishful thinking, which isn't a critique so much as an understanding of how initial trade asks go.

[aks62]

Originally Posted by Waswere

"For example: I have a LHRP who's 47 OVR (20-80 scale, increments of 1 for OVR/POT, increments of 5 for individual ratings). He's 31, out of options, and I try to move him midway through spring training. I try to shop for prospects, knowing he likely won't net any back"

A 31 Year old 47 overall reliever has little to no trade value. Relivers overalls are pretty inflated so most good teams will have entire pens of relievers that are 50+.

You have a AAAA player with no options, why would any team give up anything of value for it.

At best you're getting a lottery ticket prospect with mid 30s potential that might get a favourable TCR boost or be mis-scouted, since you have it toggled a couple ticks above center for difficulty, the AI takes that minimal trade value and then makes it negative

Well, yes, that would be my expectation. I said in the quoted section you mentioned that I didn't expect any prospects of real value to be offered in return.

What I noted further down was that the kind of lottery, mid-30s potential prospect you mention wasn't even attainable when offering several players with greater value:

"I asked it for a 21-year-old 20 OVR/POT and offered both an 18-year-old 58 POT 1B prospect and four ~45 OVR prospects (i.e., no MLB experience and all of whom were at or under age 25) and the AI still insisted on wanting upper-tier talent for their scrub."

I would have been satisfied with the return you described. If my settings are in the wrong place to net the return you alluded to, then I would want to know where I should put them to be offered such a lottery prospect. That I couldn't even get a 20/20 guy for the pitcher — let alone the other prospects mentioned above — feels off, no matter what the difficulty and favoritism leaning are set to be.

[aks62]

Originally Posted by kq76

Yeah, I'm tempted to ignore that button too, or at least until I read here that it's been improved. Oftentimes the extra player I'd be giving up was better than the first guy I was giving up and yet, if the AI didn't offer me a worse package like I already said, it'd only add some guy I really have no interest in, like a 24 year-old RH 1B with only AAA potential (the AI loves to offer me those guys).

There is the odd good deal that the AI will only offer you if you're willing to part with multiple players (I got a pretty good young SP for a MaL backup OF and a RP whom I didn't really want to part with), but they're far and few between. So it's probably worth it to still check it, just beware that you might get some better offers by unchecking it. It'd just be better, I think, if it didn't waste your time by offering you worse deals with it.

I've gotten those once-in-a-blue-moon AI trades in my inbox, which the AI almost always refuses to negotiate on in good faith. I have yet to see them when shopping a player(s) for a multi-player package, with or without that box checked. For that reason, when I shop anyone, I always do so either for a single player or a prospect package. Until the multi-player valuation system is adjusted in some way, I don't use it and don't see myself using it anytime soon. I can create better packages by throwing prospect darts into a trade discussion until one will be included.

Concerning those inbox trades: I almost always have to take the AI-sent offer as-is, and the AI won't react with the same willingness if I were to create the same exact package from scratch, versus opening discussions/completing the trade via the inbox message. I recently logged that as a bug, if it is one, as I would think the AI should be consistent in standing by offers it sends to you and recreating the offer from the ground up in the trade window.

[Pelican]

Yeah the "include other players" seems too much like the "make this deal work now" button, which usually results in the AI wanting a five-star player to complete a trade of two-and-a-half star guys. An insult to my intelligence.