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OOTP 25 - General Discussions Everything about the brand new 25th Anniversary Edition of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB, the MLBPA, KBO and the Baseball Hall of Fame.

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Old 05-03-2024, 03:11 AM   #1
tktkrtktkr
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Reliever rating is too low

In 25, the overall quality of league's relievers seem too low.

Over 20 years of league play, it's very rare to find a reliever with overall rating of 60 or higher.
It's not just a matter of relative rating, there aren't actually that many good bullpen in the league.

I think it needs a little tweaking.

Last edited by tktkrtktkr; 05-03-2024 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 05-03-2024, 03:23 AM   #2
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Agree! when years are going forward, Rating pools would be different from 2024.

In 2024, there is at least about 5 relievers who has 70+ ratings, but after some times, they are gone and no relievers are over 70.

I think 2024's ratings are pretty realistic, these changes need to tweak.

I saw only 3 guys who has 70+ ratings as RP, and they were all from International FA. Any prospects couldn't have been developed to 70.
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Old 05-03-2024, 12:38 PM   #3
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Is this because 25 increased the importance of control, which most modern relievers lack?
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Old 05-07-2024, 03:35 PM   #4
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This is actually as it should be…delivers irl are not usually rated very high overall. A 60 would likely be the best in the league. This is merely more closely reflecting reality, and it’s a good thing.
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Old 05-08-2024, 01:32 PM   #5
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If one is to believe Fangraphs and buy into their way of comparing players, this article would actually say the OP's observation are intended and "as it should be". If anything, past versions probably overvalued RPs when it came to overall/potential ratings.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/scouting...couting-scale/
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Old 05-08-2024, 03:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koohead View Post
If one is to believe Fangraphs and buy into their way of comparing players, this article would actually say the OP's observation are intended and "as it should be". If anything, past versions probably overvalued RPs when it came to overall/potential ratings.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/scouting...couting-scale/
Exactly
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Old 05-08-2024, 07:29 PM   #7
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How does the peak of the rating scale matter if they perform realistically?
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Old 05-09-2024, 06:26 AM   #8
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One of the first things that takes players beyond 'beginner' level is realising that Overall ratings are misleading at best.

Plenty of relievers are rated 45 and you wonder how as they have mostly yellow ratings and two pitches with poor stat lines, and are the same as someone with greens and teals and 4 pitches throwing well across multiple seasons.

Just look at the ratings individually and the stats. Anything that requires interpretation of stats is a plus for me.
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Old 05-09-2024, 07:03 AM   #9
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This is actually as it should beÂ…delivers irl are not usually rated very high overall. A 60 would likely be the best in the league. This is merely more closely reflecting reality, and itÂ’s a good thing.
But that's because calculate pitchers overall from all pitchers in real life, isn't it?
I mean, If someone get 65, then it means he is 65 for any role.

But OOTP calculate versus their position. Like, someone can be a 80 for a closer but he could be a 40 for a starter.
So those difference versus real life gives me weird feels.

also still scouting report says 55 is standard reliever and 65 is for setup.

I hope they makes clear for this issue. Also with 50 years of my fictional league, I can't see ANY 70 Closer who drafted. Nobody could be reach 70. but there are a few 70 closers from International FA. they were born to be as 70.
But for now, Im gonna think this myself I got bad luck.

Anyway, I hope devs make this sure. I think they are confused because nothing is clearly explained or displayed.
For me, I more like current system if I excepted some little problems.
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Last edited by coolfish2; 05-09-2024 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 05-09-2024, 07:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by coolfish2 View Post
But that's because calculate pitchers overall from all pitchers in real life, isn't it?
I mean, If someone get 65, then it means he is 65 for any role.
No..the Best relievers IRL are a 55 or 60. Generational relievers might be a 65.
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Old 05-09-2024, 09:31 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by PSUColonel View Post
This is actually as it should be…delivers irl are not usually rated very high overall. A 60 would likely be the best in the league. This is merely more closely reflecting reality, and it’s a good thing.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koohead View Post
If one is to believe Fangraphs and buy into their way of comparing players, this article would actually say the OP's observation are intended and "as it should be". If anything, past versions probably overvalued RPs when it came to overall/potential ratings.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/scouting...couting-scale/
And yes.
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Old 05-09-2024, 10:07 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by PSUColonel View Post
No..the Best relievers IRL are a 55 or 60. Generational relievers might be a 65.
This 100%


Back around Opening Day, Baseball America posted current grades for all teams starting 9, top 5 starting pitchers, and top 3 relief pitchers.
I rolled it up below.


The 2 highest RP in all MLB are 60’s
I’d have to check but I believe it was Josh Hader, and Devin Williams.
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Old 05-10-2024, 10:24 AM   #13
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This is fascinating, and confusing to me, as I use 1-100 ratings. I am not seeing a comparable decrease in peak reliever ratings. (No, I haven't done a comprehensive test, but they pass the eye test and seem consistent with prior years.) Younger guys may have higher Potential Ratings that suggest they will get there soon. I don't know how the 20-80 scale is converted to the decimal scale - or vice/versa. I would think the entire spread of RP should be something of a bell curve with either scale. I'll be on the lookout now for anomalies.
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Old 05-10-2024, 12:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by coolfish2 View Post
But that's because calculate pitchers overall from all pitchers in real life, isn't it?
I mean, If someone get 65, then it means he is 65 for any role.

But OOTP calculate versus their position. Like, someone can be a 80 for a closer but he could be a 40 for a starter.
So those difference versus real life gives me weird feels.

also still scouting report says 55 is standard reliever and 65 is for setup.


I hope they makes clear for this issue. Also with 50 years of my fictional league, I can't see ANY 70 Closer who drafted. Nobody could be reach 70. but there are a few 70 closers from International FA. they were born to be as 70.
But for now, Im gonna think this myself I got bad luck.

Anyway, I hope devs make this sure. I think they are confused because nothing is clearly explained or displayed.
For me, I more like current system if I excepted some little problems.
The OP is asking with regard to position-relative ratings. The language he cites from scouting reports appears to confirm that each position has a bespoke 20-80 scaling. In their eager—and successful, I would add—defense of OOTP’s discounted evaluation of relief pitchers, the replies here are giving the right answer to the wrong question.
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Old 05-10-2024, 02:07 PM   #15
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The OP is asking with regard to position-relative ratings. The language he cites from scouting reports appears to confirm that each position has a bespoke 20-80 scaling. In their eager—and successful, I would add—defense of OOTP’s discounted evaluation of relief pitchers, the replies here are giving the right answer to the wrong question.
Sabr and ootp apologists are a rabid bunch.
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Old 05-10-2024, 03:10 PM   #16
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I don’t really think it’s all that difficult. You have to start from a place of “relief pitchers inherently aren’t as. Valuable as starters are.” I think if you start from this position, it’s probably easier to see why the scale works as it does.


EDIT: with relief pitchers, stats matter so much more than scouting grades…more so than with any other position I’d say. I believe the game is now reflecting this in a positive way. There will be tons of 45 rated relief pitchers out there. It’s up to you to determine which pitchers fit best into YOUR bullpen depending on how you want to use them.

Last edited by PSUColonel; 05-10-2024 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 05-10-2024, 07:02 PM   #17
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I don’t really think it’s all that difficult. You have to start from a place of “relief pitchers inherently aren’t as. Valuable as starters are.” I think if you start from this position, it’s probably easier to see why the scale works as it does.


EDIT: with relief pitchers, stats matter so much more than scouting grades…more so than with any other position I’d say. I believe the game is now reflecting this in a positive way. There will be tons of 45 rated relief pitchers out there. It’s up to you to determine which pitchers fit best into YOUR bullpen depending on how you want to use them.
Exactly, it's a relative scale. 70's and 80's are not required for it to work, and I would argue artificially inflating numbers so someone can be an 80 is not a good way to go, even when done "by position". It seems OOTP has this right for more than just relievers. A quick look at my game shows no catchers rated an 80. Only one rated 70, with only one C with a potential of 70 that is currently a 45.

As I understand it, and from what I see in my game, performance hasn't changed. What has changed is how players appear on the scale, and that isn't just for relievers. These changes in v25 are giving a much better picture of player ability than v24 and before. A welcome change IMHO.
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Old 05-10-2024, 07:04 PM   #18
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Sabr and ootp apologists are a rabid bunch.
If you want to argue for the old inflated and less accurate scales of v24 and before be my guest.
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Old 05-11-2024, 12:59 AM   #19
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They broke the pitchers strikeout numbers.


I have ONE reliever in my entire 28 team league this year with an average of greater than 9 strikeouts per 9 innings - and this is at the AS Break, so the sample size is plenty valid.

Prior years, there about 20 total, per year. And by "prior years" I mean the last 17 versions of this game.

Starting pitcher K dropoff is nearly as bad with only TWO starters at 9+ K/9, whereas a baker's dozen in prior years was a sure thing.

Inexcusable and stupid.
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Old 05-11-2024, 04:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jcard View Post
The OP is asking with regard to position-relative ratings. The language he cites from scouting reports appears to confirm that each position has a bespoke 20-80 scaling. In their eager—and successful, I would add—defense of OOTP’s discounted evaluation of relief pitchers, the replies here are giving the right answer to the wrong question.
Sorry I can't clearly understand your reply.. My bad.
----------
Anyway, What I want to say is : The game must be unity.

Like, the other user says above, If 65 is best RP in the real life then game should not give 70-80 to Closer when very first start. as I remember, Edwin, Devin and Hader have more than 70 ratings. also there are few more Closer who has 70.

I really don't matter about rating changes. I like rating system in 24, but also I like rating system in 25 too. They both are meaningful and it's acceptable.

I think since OOTP 25, now they want to be closer in real life rating system, and it feels better. but, still some details(Scouting report/Fictional Player generation mechanism, etc) are stay in 24 and it just give me confused.

I haven't wanted to talk about what is better, but I have wanted to talk about game's details. Thanks.

TMI) If game doesn't want to generate too much 70/75/80 reliever, then scouting report's text must be fixed. For now, they will say he's limit is setup if he got 70 score. that's non-sense. I know this is only text, and it won't effected to game play or Ai desicion, but still it can break immersion.
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Last edited by coolfish2; 05-11-2024 at 04:27 AM.
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