Why does the CPU treat guys like this as overpaid veterans?

[imnotsammysosa]

When I shop either of these guys, I get offered literally nothing. I get that they're entering arb, but I wasn't getting offered anything when they were on the minimum either. It seems out of whack that no one will even offer a one star prospect for guys that have proven useful at the major league level. I know they're 31, but they're worth something. Default trading difficulty. I also went a couple years into a save with the Angels and the CPU treated Luis Rengifo the same way even though he was coming off a 3 WAR season.

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by imnotsammysosa

When I shop either of these guys, I get offered literally nothing. I get that they're entering arb, but I wasn't getting offered anything when they were on the minimum either. It seems out of whack that no one will even offer a one star prospect for guys that have proven useful at the major league level. I know they're 31, but they're worth something. Default trading difficulty. I also went a couple years into a save with the Angels and the CPU treated Luis Rengifo the same way even though he was coming off a 3 WAR season.

The truth is I wouldn't give you anything for either of them, the 1st one can't hit at all and isn't even useful as a defensive replacement.

While the second can be a good defensive bench player, but they are players you can get in the offseason more easily.

[Daniel_09]

and well a 1.3 WAR player in a season is a well below replacement player. I'd rather have a AAA player who gets paid the minimum, he could get the same numbers.

[imnotsammysosa]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

and well a 1.3 WAR player in a season is a well below replacement player. I'd rather have a AAA player who gets paid the minimum, he could get the same numbers.

How is 1.3 WAR a below replacement player? That's literally what WAR is, lol. Do you have a 26 man roster of 3 WAR guys?

Again, I'm not saying these guys are world beaters. I'm saying that they have at least some value and the game is saying they don't. And I've seen it say the same thing about younger, more productive players.

[kidd_05_u2]

Originally Posted by imnotsammysosa

When I shop either of these guys, I get offered literally nothing. I get that they're entering arb, but I wasn't getting offered anything when they were on the minimum either. It seems out of whack that no one will even offer a one star prospect for guys that have proven useful at the major league level. I know they're 31, but they're worth something. Default trading difficulty. I also went a couple years into a save with the Angels and the CPU treated Luis Rengifo the same way even though he was coming off a 3 WAR season.

What are your AI evaluation settings? If it is high on ratings like the default, the AI will only see the ratings of AAA player who is also old and about to become expensive. It won't care much that he posted ok-ish WAR.

Players of AAA caliber typically get released if they get to arbitration.

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by imnotsammysosa

How is 1.3 WAR a below replacement player? That's literally what WAR is, lol. Do you have a 26 man roster of 3 WAR guys?

Again, I'm not saying these guys are world beaters. I'm saying that they have at least some value and the game is saying they don't. And I've seen it say the same thing about younger, more productive players.

I meant that below 2.0 WAR over a full season is below a starter.

And by player ratings you can see that over a full season that OPS+ is unsustainable.

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

I meant that below 2.0 WAR over a full season is below a starter.

And by player ratings you can see that over a full season that OPS+ is unsustainable.

I am just mentioning that it is normal for the CPU to not appreciate those two players as good trade pieces since they are relatively 2 bench players with below league average ratings.

[imnotsammysosa]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

I am just mentioning that it is normal for the CPU to not appreciate those two players as good trade pieces since they are relatively 2 bench players with below league average ratings.

They aren't good trade pieces. I guess I just feel like stats should be taken more into account on the default settings. I tried to move them at the deadline last year as well. Both were making the minimum. Both were overperforming. All that was offered were overpaid veterans. I can't get the worst prospect in baseball for a Major League contributor making the minimum?

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by imnotsammysosa

They aren't good trade pieces. I guess I just feel like stats should be taken more into account on the default settings. I tried to move them at the deadline last year as well. Both were making the minimum. Both were overperforming. All that was offered were overpaid veterans. I can't get the worst prospect in baseball for a Major League contributor making the minimum?

if you want the stats to count more try the AI evaluation at 25/25/25/25/25 that would give you 25% ratings and 75% stats, so it is more possible to get some deals with not so good players that are overperforming.

That said with that AI evaluation you will see that the CPU will almost always waiver, trade, or rule 5 all prospects (since they don't have enough stats at the MLB level) and keep on their roster overpaid veterans that can produce average stats year after year.

[md40022]

Guys like that are a dime a dozen. If every organization has several of "that guy" already, why would they want to trade for more of them.

[Daniel_09]

in the end is how you prefer to play, and you feel more comfortable and what you like to see from the CPU, I even go to the other extreme in 75% ratings and 25% stats, as I like the CPU to make decisions with the rosters very similar to what a human player can take.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

if you want the stats to count more try the AI evaluation at 25/25/25/25/25 that would give you 25% ratings and 75% stats, so it is more possible to get some deals with not so good players that are overperforming.

That said with that AI evaluation you will see that the CPU will almost always waiver, trade, or rule 5 all prospects (since they don't have enough stats at the MLB level) and keep on their roster overpaid veterans that can produce average stats year after year.

I've used 25/25/25/25 since v21 (maybe before?) and that is not my experience. Like almost anything there are pros and cons to most settings, but I'll leave that discussion for the "annual evaluation thread".

The only thing I'd contribute to this trade thread is using the 4-25's, last years new "hard trading", and reputation; the trades made have had value for value whether AI to AI, or AI to me. I still get the "bad" offers from the AI, and that's fine. Easy enough to turn those down.

[imnotsammysosa]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

if you want the stats to count more try the AI evaluation at 25/25/25/25/25 that would give you 25% ratings and 75% stats, so it is more possible to get some deals with not so good players that are overperforming.

That said with that AI evaluation you will see that the CPU will almost always waiver, trade, or rule 5 all prospects (since they don't have enough stats at the MLB level) and keep on their roster overpaid veterans that can produce average stats year after year.

I certainly wouldn't want it that extreme and have never had issues with the default settings before this version.

I did some more shopping around, and this is more of what I'm talking about. The computer offers me nothing for any of these players. And I don't mean nothing in terms of "they aren't offering me four star prospects for my trash". I mean they are literally offering me nothing. Yes, these players are a dime a dozen. They are nothing special. The league is filled with them. The issue I'm having is that the computer only wants to trade its dime a dozen players for the top players and prospects on my team. My dime a dozen players are somehow so much worse than theirs that they won't offer me a single one. I've never had a problem in previous OOTPs where I couldn't trade dudes like this for ones of similar ilk.

[imnotsammysosa]

Originally Posted by Sweed

last years new "hard trading"

Ah, that may be my issue. I didn't play a ton of 24 because I couldn't stop playing a save on 23 lol.

I played enough to where I'd think I'd have remembered if trading AI was this harsh, but maybe not. I'm getting old, after all, and I certainly played a whole lot more of OOTP 16-23 than I did of 24, so it may just not have registered in my old brain. So what trade settings would be closest to OOTP 23?

[kidd_05_u2]

Originally Posted by imnotsammysosa

Ah, that may be my issue. I didn't play a ton of 24 because I couldn't stop playing a save on 23 lol.

I played enough to where I'd think I'd have remembered if trading AI was this harsh, but maybe not. I'm getting old, after all, and I certainly played a whole lot more of OOTP 16-23 than I did of 24, so it may just not have registered in my old brain. So what trade settings would be closest to OOTP 23?

Turn off hard trade settings, turn off trade reputation for human GM. Make sure to move the trade difficulty slider to neutral or lower.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

and well a 1.3 WAR player in a season is a well below replacement player. I'd rather have a AAA player who gets paid the minimum, he could get the same numbers.

Below average, yes. Below replacement, no. I would tepidly agree that I wouldn't give up assets, necessarily, to go out and get a guy like this though; the difference between him and a replacement level guy (who by definition should be worth approximately 0 WAR) is not large. Maybe if I was completely desperate to plug someone in at the position and the asking price wasn't too high.

[Pdubya64]

In the spirit of "Something for something", my take on this situation is that AI teams should value prospects a bit more and they do by my rough estimation.
So you end up with your no deal because the other teams have plenty of what you are offering and don't feel it would be a good trade to part with a younger player with options for mediocre-at-best replacement players.
I know it can get frustrating when you have an idea for a plan as GM and the "game" just won't cooperate.

On the other hand, I have been surprised by what the AI offers in some cases with a player such as Taylor Trammell. It is all relative and to be honest I am glad the AI teams have gotten tough on trades in general. It makes you work harder for those GM wins.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Not to mention that those guys take up a 40-man roster spot. They are a dime a dozen, and the AI could probably get them through waivers and try to stash them instead of giving up a lottery ticket.

[slic1149]

The more I look at the vagaries and inconsistent behavior of the AI, the more I think it is actually behaving like a human GM.

[locuspc]

Those are junk players. Non-tender bait. I wouldn't want to trade for them either. So this isn't a very big logic flaw... but I do think the AI somewhat undervalues players in or nearing arbitration. The option value of being able to see if they perform and non-tender them if they don't is worth a little something, and it doesn't look like the AI takes that into account.