ratings can thhey go either way

[jdolecek49]

So looking at a pitcher some have great stuff and movement but crappy pitches but on the other hand some have great pitches but has poor movement but wouldn't you think if they have great pitches then they also have good movement/suff so how do you wrap your head around these 2 types of pitchers? so how can a pitcher have great stuff but crappy pitches? i jus dont understand as in my eyes the 2 ways of looking at this sshould match up right?

[monkeyman576]

I would probably put them in a game and see what happens.

[HonusWagner]

This is a good question though. I don't have the game in front of me but how can a pitch be good but with poor stuff or movement?

To OP - what combinations of good pitches and low ratings are you seeing?

[md40022]

Yeah, I agree that this is a good question.

Here is another layer to throw out there.... If a young pitcher is a 2 pitch pitcher and he has a 95mph fastball and a crappy slider. So that 95mph probably isn't all that great since hitters can just sit on it and wait for it. But if that slider turns into a nasty wipeout slider, does that exact same 95mph fastball become a higher rated pitch since now hitters are off balance and not able to sit on the fastball.

It's the exact same fastball, but does it get a ratings bump when the young developing pitcher is all of sudden more capable of mixing in the off-speed stuff?

But to the OP's question, yeah I would think to have great "stuff" you would either need a great pitch or two, or maybe a repertoire of a bunch of pretty good pitches.... at least that's how I'd interpret it.

[snepp]

Looking at the pitcher list in my league (full fictional) there appears to be a very strong correlation between stuff and pitch quality. I don't see any high stuff ratings accompanied by poor pitches.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by jdolecek49

So looking at a pitcher some have great stuff and movement but crappy pitches but on the other hand some have great pitches but has poor movement but wouldn't you think if they have great pitches then they also have good movement/suff so how do you wrap your head around these 2 types of pitchers? so how can a pitcher have great stuff but crappy pitches? i jus dont understand as in my eyes the 2 ways of looking at this sshould match up right?

Do you mean great control and movement? Because if they have great stuff, they have great pitches; that's how you get great stuff. Overall Stuff is literally just an aggregate of the Stuff ratings of your individual pitches - it's not an average, and a guy with, say, a 70 fastball and a 60 slider will have a lower Stuff rating than a guy with a 70 fastball, a 60 slider, and a 40 change for example, but the calculation is entirely based on the individual ratings of those pitches. I should also point out that under the hood the game calculates SP stuff and RP stuff slightly differently. You really, really don't want to start a guy slotted as a reliever/closer unless you're using them as an opener (and if you leave it to the AI they will pull that player after 2-3 innings - note that you can get rid of this effect by just changing a pitcher's role to SP before he starts the game) but relief Stuff is calculated with a much bigger emphasis placed on a pitcher's top 2 pitches.

It's also possible for a guy to have at least passable Stuff - I don't know if I've seen "great" but definitely average to above average - if he throws like 5 or 6 pitches decently well. That would I guess be a way to have "good stuff but crappy pitches" and those guys exist in real life, too. Sometimes people will refer to those guys as throwing the kitchen sink in terms of their repertoire. All that said... my definition of "crappy" is probably different from yours; I think of a "crappy" pitch as like a 20-25 grade "show me" slider or change that sometimes young pitchers are given to give them the chance that they might develop into starting pitchers (you need to throw at least 3 pitches well to not get dinged hard your 2nd time through the order and also for the AI to consider you a viable SP). A guy with a truly bad pitch will probably not see any improvement at all to his Stuff (although adding pitches will never make it go down).

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by snepp

Looking at the pitcher list in my league (full fictional) there appears to be a very strong correlation between stuff and pitch quality. I don't see any high stuff ratings accompanied by poor pitches.

I mean, the correlation is more or less 1:1, bearing in mind that the Stuff ratings you see for fastballs (the "fastball" fastball of course, which is a 4-seamer, but also the sinker/2-seamer and the cutter) also incorporate velocity and so if you go into the editor you might find that those pitches have "raw" ratings lower than you might otherwise think, but overall Stuff is derived from the individual pitches. I only say "more or less" because there's a specific formula (really, 2 since there are separate ones for starters and relievers) and it's not, like, just an average or something.

Also too the 3 main pitcher ratings influence each other in a sort of holistic way, like all things being equal a guy with stuff/control/movement ratings of 40/60/60 will give up more HRs per fly ball than a guy with a 60/60/60. I don't *think* this is a massive effect - you can 100% have guys who throw lots of strikeouts but also give up lots of HRs and walks, for example - but it's there.

[Guthrien]

You'll literally see a starters stuff raise when put in a reliever role which is a nice representation of the short inning oomph. Velocity impacts it along with pitch quality. As the engine determines K at the beginning, you can avoid bad possibilities by striking them out first. Hence why some high stuff low movement pitchers can thrive.

The game clearly awards pitchers with a large repertoire just like it will punish you for the dreaded Borderline Starter which typically means a weak 3rd pitch despite stamina etc.