The 2023 NFL Season Thread

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

No moral victories in sports. New York teams are constantly trying to poach off of small markets and buy championships. I'm not going to feel sorry for them when they lose.

In the NFL, really?

I'll be honest, even in leagues where there isn't widespread parity and a hard cap, I have very little sympathy for this argument. If anything, small markets like Milwaukee are "poaching" off of the huge baseball markets in New York and Chicago and Los Angeles and even, if we keep things specific to baseball, St. Louis (which is a big baseball market). In the English Premiere League, the big-market teams win all the time and nobody is super sad about that (there was that win by Leicester City a few years ago which was treated as the Cinderella season that it was). A team that makes like 5 times as much money as another team should probably be spending 5 times or more in payroll.

But this is a duuuuuumb argument to have for the NFL. When was the last time the Jets won the Owl again? This offseason they "poached" a 40 year old quarterback from a team that got tired of the yearly offseason retirement watch and had a new guy ready to go... and even at all that, the guy the Jets "poached" took a haircut on his salary so they could field a competitive team around him. This is large market evil?

[Le Grande Orange]

There are three certainties in life:

Death. Taxes. And complaining about NFL referees.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

There are three certainties in life:

Death. Taxes. And complaining about NFL referees.

Complaining about officials is universal. It happens in every sport.

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

In the NFL, really?

I'll be honest, even in leagues where there isn't widespread parity and a hard cap, I have very little sympathy for this argument. If anything, small markets like Milwaukee are "poaching" off of the huge baseball markets in New York and Chicago and Los Angeles and even, if we keep things specific to baseball, St. Louis (which is a big baseball market). In the English Premiere League, the big-market teams win all the time and nobody is super sad about that (there was that win by Leicester City a few years ago which was treated as the Cinderella season that it was). A team that makes like 5 times as much money as another team should probably be spending 5 times or more in payroll.

But this is a duuuuuumb argument to have for the NFL. When was the last time the Jets won the Owl again? This offseason they "poached" a 40 year old quarterback from a team that got tired of the yearly offseason retirement watch and had a new guy ready to go... and even at all that, the guy the Jets "poached" took a haircut on his salary so they could field a competitive team around him. This is large market evil?

I'm talking about New York teams in general, not just the NFL. The "we're an underdog, feel sorry for us," argument doesn't hold water for a team like a the Jets. They're just a very poorly run franchise.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

I'm talking about New York teams in general, not just the NFL. The "we're an underdog, feel sorry for us," argument doesn't hold water for a team like a the Jets. They're just a very poorly run franchise.

In the NFL every team is on pretty much the same page. The Jets are poorly run and don't surround their skill players with a good offensive line but those issues are no less true than issues other bad teams have and for the fans, they've just been a long-suffering fanbase, albeit one without the excuse of the Oakland A's (who I mean play in a top 10 market... but I digress). I have a lot more sympathy for Jets fans than I do for, say, Browns fans at this point, even though the Browns have also been awful for a long time.

[Ragnar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X0xtqse_uM

Don't get me wrong, I loved the results, but can anyone see why this was a pick 6? The 2nd replay gives you the best angle. I see no one talking about it. They just bring up the obvious.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X0xtqse_uM

Don't get me wrong, I loved the results, but can anyone see why this was a pick 6? The 2nd replay gives you the best angle. I see no one talking about it. They just bring up the obvious.

I don't see anything other than a bad throw and the DB staying home.

[monkeyman576]

Start of Week 4 cash on hand: $1050

Lions at Packers(-1.5) - $5 GB DET 34, GB 20 (L) $1045

Falcons at Jaguars(-3) - $5 ATL JAX 23, ATL 7(L) $1040

Bengals at Titans(+2) - $5 CIN TEN 27, CIN 3(L) $1035

Rams at Colts(-1) - $10 LAR LAR 29, IND 23(OT) (W) $1045

Bucs at Saints(-3) -$5 Bucs TAM 26, NO 9 (W) $1050

Commanders at Eagles(-7) - $100 PHI PHI 34, WAS 31(OT)(L) $950

Vikings at Panthers(+3.5) - $30 MIN MIN 21, CAR 13 (W) $980

Miami at Buffalo(-2.5) - BUF $5 BUF 48, MIA 20(W) $985

Broncos at Bears(+3.5) -CHI $10 DEN 31, CHI 28(W) $995

Ravens at Browns(-2.5) - CLE $5 BAL 28, CLE 3 +$10 BAL(W) $1000

Steelers at Texans(+3) - HOU $10 HOU 30 PIT 6(W) $1010

Raiders at Chargers(-5.5) - LAC 24, LVR 17(W) $1020
LAC $10

New England at Dallas(-7) - $10 NEP DAL 38, NE 3(L) $1020

Arizona at San Francisco(-14) $50 SF SF 35, ARI 16(W) $1070

Chiefs at Jets(+9.5) - KC $200 KC 23, NYJ 20(L) $870

Seahawks at Giants(-1.5) - SEA $20 $890

Start of Week 5 - Cash on Hand $890

Bears at Commanders(-6) - $5 CHI CHI 40, WAS 20(W) $895

Jaguars at Bills(-4.5) - $50 BUF JAX 25, BUF 20 (L) $845

Giants at Dolphins(-9.5) - $30 MIA MIA 31, NYG 16 (W) $875

Titans at Colts(-1) - $5 IND IND 23, TEN 16 (W) $880

Texans at Falcons(-2) - $40 HOU ATL 21, HOU 19 (T) $880

Ravens at Steelers(+3.5) - BAL $25 PIT 17, BAL 10 (L) $855

Saints at Patriots(-1.5) - $5 NE NO 34, NE 0 (L) $850

Bengals at Cardinals(+4) - CIN 34, ARI 20 (W) $855

Eagles at Rams(+5) - PHI $10 PHI 23, LAR 14 (W) $865

Chiefs at Vikings(+5.5) - $50 KC KC 27, MIN 20 (W) $915

Jets at Broncos(-2.5) - $5 NYJ NYJ 31, DEN 21 (W) $920

Cowboys at 49ers(-3.5) - $5 DAL SF 42, DAL 10 (L) $915

Packers at Raiders(+1.5) - Raiders are a dysfunctional mess. GB $5

Total at Stake $240

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't see anything other than a bad throw and the DB staying home.

That's what everyone was focused on. The ill advised pass. But that didn't need to be an interception. The WR stopped, with Bland just to his left. As soon as Jones released that ball the WR should have been moving towards the QB. Instead, he fades back and just lets Bland jump the route.

Think of a comeback route that's thrown late. You have to move towards the ball. Had that WR moved towards the ball Bland may have still broken it up. At best he would have caught it. But no way it's a pick 6.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

That's what everyone was focused on. The ill advised pass. But that didn't need to be an interception. The WR stopped, with Bland just to his left. As soon as Jones released that ball the WR should have been moving towards the QB. Instead, he fades back and just lets Bland jump the route.

Think of a comeback route that's thrown late. You have to move towards the ball. Had that WR moved towards the ball Bland may have still broken it up. At best he would have caught it. But no way it's a pick 6.

I get it.

But that was a horrible decision especially since he got away with it earlier. The target didn't stop as much as fade. Ideally? Yeah, you want him coming toward the ball. But I think that is focusing on the driver's blinker being out instead of the officer beating the heck out of the driver.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I get it.

But that was a horrible decision especially since he got away with it earlier. The target didn't stop as much as fade. Ideally? Yeah, you want him coming toward the ball. But I think that is focusing on the driver's blinker being out instead of the officer beating the heck out of the driver.

Yeah you're right. But think of Montana to Jerry Rice, is that a pick 6?

Remember a few years ago people were killing the Jets for sending an 8 man blitz against a hail Mary against the Raiders? Carr hit Ruggs with 0 time left on the clock. Everyone was killing them for that play call. Rightfully so. But all I can think was, how does the CB bite on a double move with 0 time left on the clock? Are you kidding me? But zero people mentioned that. That's akin to lining up offside.

[rudel.dietrich]

I can rarely take victory laps about NFL related matters. But I liked Stroud head and shoulders above the rest of the this years QB draft and so far he looks like he is an NFL level talent.

[Ragnar]

When I saw this live, I laughed out loud. I'm almost certain it was after the pick 6.

It's a short vid. It happens around the 35 second mark. Again, Bill does not disappoint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-V2_fjb58o

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X0xtqse_uM

Don't get me wrong, I loved the results, but can anyone see why this was a pick 6? The 2nd replay gives you the best angle. I see no one talking about it. They just bring up the obvious.

I'm really, really not following at all here. Mac Jones made a really bad decision, the cornerback was sitting there just waiting to jump that route, and he did. Boom, pick six. They happen kind of all the time. Spoon got his on Monday night on a similar play.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

That's what everyone was focused on. The ill advised pass. But that didn't need to be an interception. The WR stopped, with Bland just to his left. As soon as Jones released that ball the WR should have been moving towards the QB. Instead, he fades back and just lets Bland jump the route.

Think of a comeback route that's thrown late. You have to move towards the ball. Had that WR moved towards the ball Bland may have still broken it up. At best he would have caught it. But no way it's a pick 6.

Oh OK this is what you were getting at. I think it was either a really poor throw (in addition to being a bad decision) or else they seriously got their signals crossed (but even then, Mac Jones made an awful decision). I don't think it was supposed to be a comebacker. I think probably it was more of a quick out and Jones just threw it inside. You have a split second to react and the WR wasn't moving in that direction.

Or the guy just didn't defend the ball particularly well. That does happen a *lot* in the NFL. I don't think the NCAA requires receivers to protect the ball when it comes in at them at all and while I would never expect a DK Metcalf to just let a guy jump his route and make a play as clean as that, lots of WRs just don't realize that in the majors this is part of the job description. Still a bad play on the part of the WR, don't get me wrong, but again, like 90% of the issue here is with a QB not reading a guy who is clearly trying to bait him into throwing in his direction.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I can rarely take victory laps about NFL related matters. But I liked Stroud head and shoulders above the rest of the this years QB draft and so far he looks like he is an NFL level talent.

trola,

I want to argue this and say that like Bryce Young just hasn't had the weapons... but I saw Andy Dalton perform pretty well with the exact same tools. Yeah, Dalton rarely operated out of a clean pocket, and yeah, there aren't a huge amount of WR talent to throw to on that team, but the Red Rifle, who is a good veteran guy but not exactly a Hall of Famer, found open receivers a *lot* more than Young ever could.

I think Richardson is flashing as well albeit in a very different way. And Richardson was supposed to be the project of the trio. I agree that Stroud's looked just plain great and not even as merely an "NFL level talent"; it's only 4 games in but I think he's a potential Pro Bowler and might already be in that elite level the way Andrew Luck walked in and was just that good from the beginning.

[Cobra Mgr]

When I'm asked to train a new employee, they often say they wish they were as good as I am. And I tell them I should be better than them. I've been doing this for 32 years. You're just getting started. So if they as novices can do something as good as me, that is either an indictment on my ability or they would have to be some kind of wunderkind.

Dalton should look better than Young. He is a vet.

But I will say Dalton looked good cause he was actually allowed to play QB. Panthers threw 58 times & ran only 14 (81 to 19%). The other 3 were Young starts & he has thrown just 103 times while the team ran 82 (56 to 44%) I saw a stat where Carolina has ran the ball on 1st down 31 times the last 3 games for 55 yds. Versus the Seahawks they ran 10 times for 11 yds on 1st down.


Young's struggles is exasperated because his O line does nothing well, his starting RB can't get him 3yds a carry & his coaches don't trust him. The play calling is too predictable. They never attack vertically. That is hard for a rookie QB to overcome when you are behind the chains & you're facing obvious passing downs cause the running game hasn't provided support. So I can't judge the kid yet while the support everyone raved he would get hasn't materialized.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Oh OK this is what you were getting at. I think it was either a really poor throw (in addition to being a bad decision) or else they seriously got their signals crossed (but even then, Mac Jones made an awful decision). I don't think it was supposed to be a comebacker. I think probably it was more of a quick out and Jones just threw it inside. You have a split second to react and the WR wasn't moving in that direction.

Or the guy just didn't defend the ball particularly well. That does happen a *lot* in the NFL. I don't think the NCAA requires receivers to protect the ball when it comes in at them at all and while I would never expect a DK Metcalf to just let a guy jump his route and make a play as clean as that, lots of WRs just don't realize that in the majors this is part of the job description. Still a bad play on the part of the WR, don't get me wrong, but again, like 90% of the issue here is with a QB not reading a guy who is clearly trying to bait him into throwing in his direction.

The most I ever played was high school football and a million sandlot games. You don't need to be taught this in college. As a WR you already know this going in to college. If anything, it's a high school level mistake.

I know it wasn't a comeback route, but the WR was just standing there. It's no different than a comeback in that if the DB is in your hip pocket, you have to come back to the ball. Same with this case and Bland just a few yards away.

Yeah Jones threw it across the field. But sometimes desperate situations can call for desperate measures. It would have been nice if the WR helped him out.

Remember the time the Jets sent an all out blitz on the last play of the game against the Raiders, and Carr hit Ruggs was it? For a 50+ yard TD. Everyone blamed the defensive playcall. 100% of the sports media. Yet no one asked why the DB bit on a double move with no time on the clock. No one.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

When I'm asked to train a new employee, they often say they wish they were as good as I am. And I tell them I should be better than them. I've been doing this for 32 years. You're just getting started. So if they as novices can do something as good as me, that is either an indictment on my ability or they would have to be some kind of wunderkind.

Dalton should look better than Young. He is a vet.

But I will say Dalton looked good cause he was actually allowed to play QB. Panthers threw 58 times & ran only 14 (81 to 19%). The other 3 were Young starts & he has thrown just 103 times while the team ran 82 (56 to 44%) I saw a stat where Carolina has ran the ball on 1st down 31 times the last 3 games for 55 yds. Versus the Seahawks they ran 10 times for 11 yds on 1st down.


Young's struggles is exasperated because his O line does nothing well, his starting RB can't get him 3yds a carry & his coaches don't trust him. The play calling is too predictable. They never attack vertically. That is hard for a rookie QB to overcome when you are behind the chains & you're facing obvious passing downs cause the running game hasn't provided support. So I can't judge the kid yet while the support everyone raved he would get hasn't materialized.

It also looks like the few plays he threw over the middle that got intercepted spooked him a bit. Now he's missing some opportunities that were there, but he was hesitant to let it go. And the NFL doesn't reward hesitancy. A micro regression he's going through. Nothing abnormal, he'll come out of it and be fine.

[Ragnar]

https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/10/...a-huge-mistake

RT of the New York Giants Evan Neal comments after the game against Seattle.

“Why would a lion concern himself with the opinion of a sheep? ... I genuinely don’t care. Why should I? I’m in the National Football League. The person that’s commenting on my performance, what does he do? Flip hot dogs and hamburgers somewhere?”

This in response to being booed. He also called them fair weather fans. Suggesting they boo louder.

Do these fans have no shame? The people that have to go to work every day, some coming home smelling like grease, and for very little pay, should know their place. This filth is going to boo this demigod?

These ingrates, these losers in life, should have to pay a ridiculous amount of money for seats, parking, to go to a crap stadium and pay 15 dollars for a hotdog, for just the pleasure of seeing their team in person. Go to a late game on Sunday night and get home around 1AM if they're lucky. Then have to go to work. Why do the sheep do this? To watch these magnificent specimens get outscored 64-3 in those two home games.