|
||||
|
|
Talk Sports Discuss everything that is sports-related, like MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, MLS, NASCAR, NCAA sports and teams, trades, coaches, bad calls etc. |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools
![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Global Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,741
|
MLB Rule Changes Since Manfred Became Commissioner
The discussion in the MLB 2023 thread made me think I should evaluate all the rule changes MLB & MLBPA have implemented since Manfred became commissioner (Manfred became commissioner January 25, 2015.). There have been so many that I had forgotten some.
I'm not including temporary rule changes. Apologies if I missed or misdescribed some (I'll edit them if corrections are pointed out). 2015: -managers must initiate replay challenges -batters must keep 1 foot in the batter's box 2016: -restrictions on breaking up a double play -mound visits restricted to 30 seconds 2017: -no pitch intentional walk (this was the beginning of the bad changes) -30 second limit to challenge -when a team's challenges have been exhausted crew chiefs can review non-HR calls starting in the 8th, HRs can be reviewed at any time -2 minute replay guidleline -no markers allowed on the field for fielders -balks / illegal pitches tweaked -base coach position tweak -tobacco limits 2018: -6 mound visits for first 9 innings, 1 for each extra inning 2020: -automatic runner in extra innings (the worst change, I would have much preferred ties after 12 innings) -late season expanded roster changed from 40 to 28 (one of the best most important changes for competitive reasons) -players must be designated as either pitchers or position players (I hate this term position players, like pitcher isn't a position; don't so much care about the various reasons for the change) -non-pitchers not allowed to pitch except under certain conditions (I don't hate this, but I don't like it either) -players can earn "two-way player" status to pitch at any time -pitcher IL and option time is 15 days, non-pitcher is 10 days -unless injured, relief pitchers must face a minimum of 3 batters in an inning -managers have 20 seconds to challenge a play instead of 30 -protesting games is outlawed (like it meant anything anyway) -some rules like increasing the active roster from 25 to 26 and limiting the active roster to 13 pitchers were approved, but didn't end up going into effect until later due to covid 2021: -something about suspended games I don't understand -active rosters increased to 26 (should have been 27) 2022: -NL DH (boooo; if it wasn't for the frustration in the CBA negotiations I think we could have seen the hybrid DH instead) -tiebreaker stats instead of tiebreaker games (don't like this) -12 postseason teams (eh) -Ohtani rule (pitcher can remain in game as DH when relieved; needed) -Pitchcom introduced (it's been alright, I would've preferred not to see it; the more important pitchcom rule was allowing pitchers to pick the pitch) -active roster limited to 13 pitchers (long needed) 2023: -pitch clock (while I wish it wasn't necessary as I liked the idea that baseball was the only sport without a clock, players made it necessary by how much time they were wasting) -shift limits (most divisive change maybe? I'm a fan of it as I like emphasizing defensive ability rather than a computer telling players where to play) -bigger bases (I'm pleased with it although I think its would be impact was overblown) -max of 2 disengagements per PA (again, wish it was not needed, but some pitchers got too obsessed with throwing to 1st instead of pitching) -when non-pitchers can pitch was tweaked further (again, not a fan, but whatever) So... Worst Manfred rule change? Automatic runner in extras. It would probably be the DH in the NL, but I still have an ember of hope that we'll see a hybrid DH one day. Best Manfred rule change? Tobacco limits. As an ex-smoker, it pains me that kids have switched from smoking cigarettes to vaping, but at least MLB decided to make the correct choice with regard to all that. I'm sorry to Tony Gwynn and all the others that had to suffer the side effects before this change was implemented. Baseball-wise? Pitch clock. Shift limits second. Biggest surprise? At first I really didn't like the idea of the 3 batter minimum since I thought it was important to be able to match pitchers with batters however a team might like, but since I disliked all the mid-inning pitching changes so much, I begrudgingly have to admit that it was a needed change and that it doesn't bother me one bit now. I imagine some might feel that way about the automatic runner in extras, but I still find that as foul as foul can be.
__________________
Last edited by kq76; 10-02-2023 at 03:08 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 8,122
|
Didn't realize it had been that many changes til you listed them. Nicely done.
Like -managers must initiate replay challenges -batters must keep 1 foot in the batter's box -mound visits restricted to 30 seconds -30 second limit to challenge -when a team's challenges have been exhausted crew chiefs can review non-HR calls starting in the 8th, HRs can be reviewed at any time -2 minute replay guidleline -tobacco limits -6 mound visits for first 9 innings, 1 for each extra inning -unless injured, relief pitchers must face a minimum of 3 batters in an inning -managers have 20 seconds to challenge a play instead of 30 -Pitchcom introduced -pitch clock -bigger bases -max of 2 disengagements per PA Dislike -automatic runner in extra innings players must be designated as either pitchers or position players -non-pitchers not allowed to pitch except under certain conditions -players can earn "two-way player" status to pitch at any time -protesting games is outlawed (like it meant anything anyway) -NL DH tiebreaker stats instead of tiebreaker games Ohtani rule -active roster limited to 13 pitchers -shift limits -when non-pitchers can pitch was tweaked further Meh -restrictions on breaking up a double play -no pitch intentional walk -no markers allowed on the field for fielders -balks / illegal pitches tweaked -base coach position tweak -late season expanded roster changed from 40 to 28 -teams that are playing a doubleheader or a neutral site game can increase their roster by 1 -pitcher IL and option time is 15 days, non-pitcher is 10 days -suspended games continued instead of restarted -active rosters increased to 26 12 postseason teams
__________________
If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Up There
Posts: 15,644
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Games which would previously have been a 'no game' because they were called before becoming an official game, were replayed from the start. These now become a suspended game instead — this echoes the much wider range under which minor league games can be suspended. Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 09-24-2023 at 09:19 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 13,369
|
Quote:
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 91 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | ||
Global Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,741
|
Quote:
I do think a lot of these should be attributed to Manfred to some degree. I mean, sure, someone else like Epstein might be spearheading these changes, but I don't think we'd see so many going though if Manfred was not on board with them. And I certainly don't remember nearly as many happening with Selig. We've definitely turned a corner from changes are bad, to changes are at least welcome. Ahh, I see. It was listed under the 2020 changes in Wikipedia, but I understand now it was more a note to the 26 and 28 man rosters, than a rule change itself. I'll correct that and add links to the OP. Quote:
__________________
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Global Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,741
|
I like how you did that with the red, amber, green in the quotes. I'll have to remember to do that some time.
I'm curious though, why the boos toward the Ohtani / 2-way player rules, etc? Being a fellow fan of the NL game, as it seems you are by being both a Mets fan and booing the NL DH rule, I would have thought you'd be more for them.
__________________
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 13,369
|
As much as I like what Shohei's doing (whenever his brittle arm permits it...), I am definitely against rules solely designed to benefit one (or very few) player(s).
I am also leading a violent anti-DH city guerilla group, and no compromises of any sort can be made on this topic. However, "Vae victis!", remarked Rob Numbfred, and tossed a few more tampered baseballs onto the scales... ![]()
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 91 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 8,122
|
Quote:
![]() Quote:
![]()
__________________
If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 13,369
|
A pitcher that can hit is a really nice toy. Like Bro below.
Bro below unfortunately is also a pitcher that can hit that can barely pitch. ERA+ of 95 against an OPS+ of 123. Him and Shohei are hardly the same species. ![]() I have had him make about 20-25 starts on the hill and another 25-30 on third base for the last few years. Sometimes he also pitches garbage relief. Needless to say, this is a non-DH league.
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 91 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 8,122
|
I agree. But rules should be made to benefit or restrict everybody. Not a single individual or team. Here & there we had a centuries worth of capable hitters on the mound. They didn't change the rules for Ruth, so why Shonei?
__________________
If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,445
|
My thoughts on the changes:
Big Win -restrictions on breaking up a double play -30 second limit to challenge -automatic runner in extra innings -late season expanded roster changed from 40 to 28 -unless injured, relief pitchers must face a minimum of 3 batters in an inning -active rosters increased to 26 -NL DH -Pitchcom introduced -active roster limited to 13 pitchers -pitch clock Nice Change -managers must initiate replay challenges -2 minute replay guidleline -6 mound visits for first 9 innings, 1 for each extra inning -players must be designated as either pitchers or position players -pitcher IL and option time is 15 days, non-pitcher is 10 days -some rules like increasing the active roster from 25 to 26 and limiting the active roster to 13 pitchers were approved, but didn't end up going into effect until later due to covid -max of 2 disengagements per PA Take it or Leave it -batters must keep 1 foot in the batter's box -mound visits restricted to 30 seconds -when a team's challenges have been exhausted crew chiefs can review non-HR calls starting in the 8th, HRs can be reviewed at any time -balks / illegal pitches tweaked -base coach position tweak -tobacco limits -non-pitchers not allowed to pitch except under certain conditions -players can earn "two-way player" status to pitch at any time -managers have 20 seconds to challenge a play instead of 30 -protesting games is outlawed -suspended games continued instead of restarted -Ohtani rule -bigger bases -when non-pitchers can pitch was tweaked further Bad Change -no pitch intentional walk -no markers allowed on the field for fielders -12 postseason teams Awful -shift limits |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Global Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,741
|
Quote:
While I can somewhat sympathize with the sentiment that rules shouldn't be made for specific players, there have been plenty of rules in various sports restricting what certain gifted athletes are allowed to do and while some may have improved their game, some probably made their games worse. I like that baseball went the positive route however and said, you're gifted, we're not going to penalize you and say you can't continue playing as the DH simply because you're also pitching. I think we should ask whether the rule improves the game first and foremost rather than dismissing it simply because it only effects a small percentage of players. And I think allowing Shohei or any 2-way player to continue DHing once they're done pitching is a good thing. I want to see more do it in the future and so I want to encourage it, not discourage it.
__________________
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,345
|
I look at the rule change to allow a pitcher to hit after being removed from the hill not so much as being done to benefit a single player, but more in response to something like, "hmm... we've never really had this situation before. How should we handle it?" IOW, there was no DH when The Bambino was both taking the hill and playing in the field...
It's like when the dual-handed pitcher (Vendetti?) and some switch-hitter encountered one another in the minors and the pitcher would change his glove to his left hand in order to pitch with his right, and so the hitter responded by taking a left-handed batting stance. So the pitcher responded by adjusting his glove to pitch left-handed, and then the batter moved to a right-handed stance. And back and forth it went. That led to the implementation of rules to deal with this, because they never had to deal with that before... That all said, surely a component of the Ohtani Rule was the fact that MLB is in business to make money, and fans want to see Ohtani play. So was it implemented to benefit Ohtani? I guess the answer is yes and no. I'd say it was implemented primarily to benefit the game, and Ohtani and Angels were a beneficiaries of that rule change. Edit: I guess I was saying essentially the same thing that kq76 was saying ![]() Last edited by thehef; 09-25-2023 at 04:57 PM. Reason: clarity |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Where the Action is
Posts: 1,971
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Global Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,741
|
Quote:
First of all, the .00533 HR/PA they saw in 1919 was comparable to the rate they saw in the few years before WW1 (1914-07-28 to 1918-11-11). 1911 saw .00548 HR/PA, 1912 .00475, 1913 .00511, and 1914 .00512 (the rates dipped considerably from 1915-1918). It was claimed back then that the decrease in the home run rate during WW1 was due to the government taking all the good yarn for the war effort that was previously used to stitch baseballs (I highly recommend this article, it discusses all 4 rule changes that year). And yes, the US only entered WW1 in 1917, but they were no doubt supplying other countries before then. The HR rate only started to really take off after those rule changes in 1920. It's not like 1919 had some never before seen HR rate that excited the league, it was merely a return to pre-WW1 rates. More convincingly (at least in my mind), while 29 HRs was certainly very impressive, it wasn't like it was a huge revelation. Ed Williamson had held the record since 1884 (35 years) with 27, so Ruth's record was only 2 more. Babe Ruth's 54 in 1920 was the revelation. And besides, it sounds like enough people, especially the umpires, didn't like the old rule that you'd want the rule changed, Babe Ruth or not. I like to think I'd think the old rule would be stupid too, even if I had a 1919 mindset. As for the spitball, people were concerned about the spitball for years. Other than some bitching by Ty Cobb that freak pitches were outlawed in favour of home runs that he claimed were ruining the game, I don't think I've read anything about it really having anything to do with Babe Ruth. And for those who may think it had to do with Ray Chapman's death (like I once thought), the rule change didn't have anything to do with that either. Ray was hit in 1920, after the rule change had already come into effect and the pitcher who hit him, Carl Mays, who some say was a spitballer, wasn't on the grandfathered exempt list, so was he really a spitballer or not? Mays did, however, definitely have a reputation for hitting batters, even leading the league in it one year. Apparently it was "a gray and dreary day" (the game started at 3PM and it was the top of the 5th), maybe the ball was darkened, maybe not, Mays had a submarine delivery, and Chapman never reacted as if he just never saw it. As umpires were told in 1920 to throw any scuffed or discoloured balls, the rule change was likely, at least in part, brought in to prevent such incidents (it was probably also brought in to reduce the effectiveness of the pitchers who threw spitballs, but I don't think it was the sole or main reason), they just didn't go far enough, and/or it was just coincidence that it happened the very same year the new rule came in.
__________________
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 8,122
|
Quote:
And while plight points out the rules may have been changed thanks to Ruth, they weren't changed FOR JUST Ruth. Other players & games were likely to be affected. The Ohtani rule is just for Ohtani. A person can make a poor argument that the move can be done for everyone. But realistically, the only player anyone will use that option for is Ohtani. Just curious, has any other pitcher been installed @ DH since this rule was adopted? I get the sentiment. But I stand by the principle.
__________________
If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 13,369
|
Quote:
So I went to MLB.com and filtered at-bats league-wide for all players by pitchers in 2023. Three pitchers had an at-bat. They went 0-3 with 2 K. Of course, Shohei isn't listed there anyway. He's under "DH". Let's filter for that. (length of list blooms quite dramatically) It's actually not *that* bad. While only seven players are qualifying (or likely to, with six games remaining) for the batting title, the entire list is just 51 names. And (other than Shohei and his 497 AB) the only other player on the list of DH's that has thrown a pitch this year is Texas' Brad Miller. 27 G, 56 AB as DH, and 1 G, 2 IP as pitcher. Brad Miller pitched July 22 against the Dodgers, but not as DH. With the Rangers getting heavily blown out, he replaced the original DH, Jonah Heim, and went to the hill. Miller went 0-for-1 with the stick in this game. Since we're on it; in 2022, there are 48 non-Shohei DH's listed in MLB.com's batting register. None of them were pitchers or had an entry in their pitching log as garbage reliever. So, yes, it is a rule exclusively for one player. And even if I adore that player: Boo!!
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 91 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,345
|
Reasonable people can disagree. I still contend that it's not so much as a rule designed to benefit a specific player as it is a rule that wasn't needed until a unicorn-type player exposed a flaw in the previous rule. I mean, the main purpose of the DH is to add more offense / rid us of watching feeble-hitting pitchers. So tweaking the rule to support the intention of the original DH rule makes sense to me. YMMV
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Westminster BC Canada
Posts: 137
|
I wish it had not been deemed necessary to ban the shift, and the long view was taken: eventually, we'll sacrifice a home run or three per season to spend a tiny portion of every player's formative years teaching him how to hit the ball where the fielders are not. If every slugger shifted against was able to spend a day or two relearning something he was taught in A-ball a decade ago and managed a clutch controlled bloop single that would have been an out except for the insane position of the infielders, that would eventually defeat the shift better than any rule. But now that we're stuck with the rule and the "HR or K" batters, maybe the way forward is to ban the golden sombrero: three strikeouts (in the first nine innings) is an automatic ejection.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 8,122
|
Quote:
__________________
If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|