Change my mind

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Neutral zone infractions are really not all that hard to do, I have to say. I played line in high school and although I was bad at it I do understand how it's played. I don't know that anyone goes out there actually intending to line up in the neutral zone but here's the thing: so, so much of making plays on the D line comes down to getting off quickly, you're primed to jump. And sometimes you're going to jump and get back but you don't bring your hand back quite far enough and boom, you "lined up in the neutral zone". It happens. It's nowhere near the dumbest foul to commit in team sport.

The solution to jumping early & getting reset is, as I said from the beginning, to look at the ball. Easy fix.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

The solution to jumping early & getting reset is, as I said from the beginning, to look at the ball. Easy fix.

If you jump from the ball, you'll be a split second late an awful lot and that's the end, especially in the pros. The offense doesn't snap from the ball, they snap from the count, You will always be behind unless you snap from the count, too, at least sometimes. This is like basic Line 101 stuff.

There are QBs who get complacent in their calls or always deliver the snap in the same way and smart linemen take advantage of this. Michael Bennett used to be an absolute expert at anticipating the snap count. He also got called for quite a few offsides but the sacks and TFLs were more than worth it. On the flip side, some QBs are really good at faking the count - you can't be too good because you'll cause your own guys to jump but I know Aaron Rodgers has been reeeeally good at that throughout his career (and then he audibles into that damned sail pattern and boom, he's got a free play on you for a 20 yard gain).

[mytreds]

Jumping the ball is not a neutral zone infraction. It’s offside. Neutral zone is lining up in the neutral zone. Like cobra said, look at the ball, don’t line up in the neutral zone.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

If you jump from the ball, you'll be a split second late an awful lot and that's the end, especially in the pros. The offense doesn't snap from the ball, they snap from the count, You will always be behind unless you snap from the count, too, at least sometimes. This is like basic Line 101 stuff.

If you jump early on offense, that isn't lining up in the neutral zone. That is a false start. So again, it is a simple task to avoid lining up in the neutral zone.

1. Look at the ball. (If you are on offense go to #2, if on defense go to #3)
2. Move a few inches behind the ball. Stop here.
3. Move a few inches in front of the ball. Stop here.

It ain't that difficult to avoid that flag for that penalty.

[Syd Thrift]

OK you're willfully misreading what I wrote. Have fun talking to other people I guess.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

OK you're willfully misreading what I wrote. Have fun talking to other people I guess.

Lol! What the heck did I misread?

What you described was a false start.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

OK you're willfully misreading what I wrote. Have fun talking to other people I guess.

All Cobra was referring to is lining up off sides to begin with. Not moving, not jumping, just getting in your stance offside. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

All Cobra was referring to is lining up off sides to begin with. Not moving, not jumping, just getting in your stance offside. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Cobra Mgr]

Last night, my favorite team had a DE line up offsides twice. On the same frikkin' drive!. Needless to say, my BP medicine had its challenges last night.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Last night, my favorite team had a DE line up offsides twice. On the same frikkin' drive!. Needless to say, my BP medicine had its challenges last night.

In the bloodbath that was Dallas at San Francisco, one of the Cowboys DBs lined up so offsides he could have played TE for the 49ers.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

All Cobra was referring to is lining up off sides to begin with. Not moving, not jumping, just getting in your stance offside. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

Like, I don't ever see that if I'm being honest. That probably happens about as often as an offensive player accidentally lining up on the line of scrimmage when they're supposed to be a yard back. I do see "neutral zone infractions" and I do see guys getting called for having a hand in there, but it's pretty much always because a guy jumped and then didn't jump back far enough. Defensive linemen jump *all the time*, like basically every single play. It's even legal for them to move - where it's not for offensive linemen - so long as they stay on the other side of the neutral zone (or if they get pulled off because an offensive lineman flinched, in which case it's a false start). At that my general sense is that close plays aren't currently called, which seems nice but actually just moves the boundary of what constitutes a "50/50" situation a little further on.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Like, I don't ever see that if I'm being honest. That probably happens about as often as an offensive player accidentally lining up on the line of scrimmage when they're supposed to be a yard back. I do see "neutral zone infractions" and I do see guys getting called for having a hand in there, but it's pretty much always because a guy jumped and then didn't jump back far enough. Defensive linemen jump *all the time*, like basically every single play. It's even legal for them to move - where it's not for offensive linemen - so long as they stay on the other side of the neutral zone (or if they get pulled off because an offensive lineman flinched, in which case it's a false start). At that my general sense is that close plays aren't currently called, which seems nice but actually just moves the boundary of what constitutes a "50/50" situation a little further on.

Lining up in the neutral zone is exactly that. You're lined up off sides. Jumping is encroachment. This is an example. This actually happens quite often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPJv9YzozoQ

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Lining up in the neutral zone is exactly that. You're lined up off sides. Jumping is encroachment. This is an example. This actually happens quite often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPJv9YzozoQ

Isn’t jumping offsides? Encroachment is when you touch the offensive lineman before the snap?

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by mytreds

Isn’t jumping offsides? Encroachment is when you touch the offensive lineman before the snap?

You could be right. I don't have the glossary to NFL penalties in front of me. I just know for sure that lining up in the neutral zone involves no movement. If someone jumps offside, it's not lining up in the neutral zone.

[Cobra Mgr]

My mind sure didn't change today.

[Cobra Mgr]

I'm confused. What is KC's beef w/the call?

[TheMaus2]

It's a quibble that the line judge should have given Toney a courtesy call. Toney is supposed to check with the judge if he was offsides, not the other way around

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by TheMaus2

It's a quibble that the line judge should have given Toney a courtesy call. Toney is supposed to check with the judge if he was offsides, not the other way around

What's he need a "courtesy call" for? Like the ref said he was lined so far up the ref couldn't even see the ball.

As said before, look at the ball, step back an inch.

When I was a teenager, my mom would not allow the cat on the living room carpet. Less he have an "accident" that we would smell for years to come. So when the family was in the living room watching TV, he would be all alone sitting in the living room doorway wanting to be w/the rest of the family. I'd sometimes feel sorry for him & sit there w/him scratching his head. He'd sit there w/his front paws just touching where the kitchen linoleum & the carpet met.

MY FRIKKIN' CAT KNEW WHERE THE "line of scrimmage" WAS!

Why does a paid professional need a "courtesy call" to know where to frikkin' stand?

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

My mind sure didn't change today.

When this happened, I thought of you Cobra.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

What's he need a "courtesy call" for? Like the ref said he was lined so far up the ref couldn't even see the ball.

As said before, look at the ball, step back an inch.

When I was a teenager, my mom would not allow the cat on the living room carpet. Less he have an "accident" that we would smell for years to come. So when the family was in the living room watching TV, he would be all alone sitting in the living room doorway wanting to be w/the rest of the family. I'd sometimes feel sorry for him & sit there w/him scratching his head. He'd sit there w/his front paws just touching where the kitchen linoleum & the carpet met.

MY FRIKKIN' CAT KNEW WHERE THE "line of scrimmage" WAS!

Why does a paid professional need a "courtesy call" to know where to frikkin' stand?

LOL that cracked me up. I think it was a cheesy call because the rule states certain players need to be on the LOS, not slightly behind it. Toney was on the line, not past it.

A Neutral zone infraction is described as a defender being either even with or over the LOS. But it doesn't mention the offense.