International Free Agency System

ettinone · 07-13-2023, 02:16 PM

To Markus, and whom it may concern,

So recently my primary online League switched over to OOTP 24. None of us were intimately aware of the changes, including those made to the International Free Agency System and the new scouting camps.

Previously, the Commissioners of this League would set up a pool of 600 International prospects and we would use our scouts to scout them, leading up to the International free agency draft. This pool of International prospects drops right after the beginning of the season, giving each owner about 3 1/2 game months to scout (and there is a small overlap to the actual Rule IV draft, creating considerations for where you focus your scout's activities).

Each of the owners could then competitively bid against each other using an identified pool of International free agency pool space, which was typically around $5M based on each team's previous year's revenue and you could trade for more, up to a maximum of $8M. Then you would use available payroll space, up to that maximum, to make your bids and acquire players.

This new International Free Agency System has effectively killed what we have been using and enjoying in the system we have been using for several game years. I know that you and your team Markus are probably trying to reflect reality in the game, but the effect of the changes has left most, if not all, of the owners in our League scratching our heads.

Case in point: You can only bring a maximum of 10 prospects to camp each month. Each team's scout observes these players in camp and "sways" them to like your team more, per the new rules. Unfortunately, the actual effect is that your scout, at BEST, seems to raise the scouting level from 'Very Low' to 'Low' or 'Average' at best, based on limited insight from other owners and those who play the game in single-player mode.

The impact is that having a scout who is good at International scouting seems to be relatively ineffective (and if it is, you really can't "see" it or "feel" it). Additionally, out of a pool of 600 International prospects in our League, it heavily limits each owner to scouting 10 prospects per month (thus we can only scout about 30-40 maximum, due to when the pool drops) and it really effectively neuters our ability to understand if any particular prospect is good or not, in combination with the poor scouting accuracies.

This new system seemingly runs counter to the efficiency and effectiveness a Major League scout has in the Rule IV draft, where the scout can pull in upwards of 60 reports every week or two of simulating, effectively scouting hundreds of prospects up to 'Very High', in a relatively short amount of time. From a 10,000-foot level the new International Free Agency system seems to make scouts who have high International scouting ratings nearly useless, as they can only get scouting up to 'Low' or 'Average' on anywhere from 30-120 prospects with none of them ever getting to 'High' or 'Very High'.

It feels like in our League we are now, mostly, randomly drawing out of a hat, than identifying solid prospects. The inability to turn this new International Free Agency scouting system off is also a big nuisance from our perspective, since we greatly preferred the implementation for International Free Agency that we use and love.

Our owners in this particular online League, love playing OOTP and we have a great League with two great Commissioners and I have to say that this new International Free Agency system has killed the vibe there. Many of the owners don't quite understand the machinations of the new system and are already actively selling off their International Free Agency pool space we use as the currency to bid on International prospects, which is a clear sign that the current implementation of the system is not "hitting the mark". The apparent inability to turn it off is also a large nuisance consider the many other selectable settings that OOTP 24 DOES offer.

Sorry for the long note, but I wanted to actually take the time out of my day to try and write a comprehensive response to the new feature of OOTP 24 and ask that you and your team reconsider the construct and most importantly include a feature that makes it optional to use it.

Thank you for your time and consideration,

Robert Cunningham
ettinone@hotmail.com

UPDATE: One other item I left off is that I purposely have been having my scout target certain International Free Agent players and the scouting is not happening. I've done a handful of scouting reports on certain players and the scout does not scout them and does not provide a report.

whaleheader · 07-13-2023, 03:03 PM

What mechanism do you use to restrict the signings? Are int. players added to the free agent pool? Is the bidding done outside the game?

Since MLB is headed toward a draft in the future, we'll be separating our Rookie Draft into two versions domestic and international. In that case, it would be nice to be able to label/differentiate the multiple drafts in the game.

Anyway, what's the league site? I'd love to learn more about your system.

darkcloud4579 · 07-13-2023, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ettinone

To Markus, and whom it may concern,

So recently my primary online League switched over to OOTP 24. None of us were intimately aware of the changes, including those made to the International Free Agency System and the new scouting camps.

Previously, the Commissioners of this League would set up a pool of 600 International prospects and we would use our scouts to scout them, leading up to the International free agency draft. This pool of International prospects drops right after the beginning of the season, giving each owner about 3 1/2 game months to scout (and there is a small overlap to the actual Rule IV draft, creating considerations for where you focus your scout's activities).

Each of the owners could then competitively bid against each other using an identified pool of International free agency pool space, which was typically around $5M based on each team's previous year's revenue and you could trade for more, up to a maximum of $8M. Then you would use available payroll space, up to that maximum, to make your bids and acquire players.

This new International Free Agency System has effectively killed what we have been using and enjoying in the system we have been using for several game years. I know that you and your team Markus are probably trying to reflect reality in the game, but the effect of the changes has left most, if not all, of the owners in our League scratching our heads.

Case in point: You can only bring a maximum of 10 prospects to camp each month. Each team's scout observes these players in camp and "sways" them to like your team more, per the new rules. Unfortunately, the actual effect is that your scout, at BEST, seems to raise the scouting level from 'Very Low' to 'Low' or 'Average' at best, based on limited insight from other owners and those who play the game in single-player mode.

The impact is that having a scout who is good at International scouting seems to be relatively ineffective (and if it is, you really can't "see" it or "feel" it). Additionally, out of a pool of 600 International prospects in our League, it heavily limits each owner to scouting 10 prospects per month (thus we can only scout about 30-40 maximum, due to when the pool drops) and it really effectively neuters our ability to understand if any particular prospect is good or not, in combination with the poor scouting accuracies.

This new system seemingly runs counter to the efficiency and effectiveness a Major League scout has in the Rule IV draft, where the scout can pull in upwards of 60 reports every week or two of simulating, effectively scouting hundreds of prospects up to 'Very High', in a relatively short amount of time. From a 10,000-foot level the new International Free Agency system seems to make scouts who have high International scouting ratings nearly useless, as they can only get scouting up to 'Low' or 'Average' on anywhere from 30-120 prospects with none of them ever getting to 'High' or 'Very High'.

It feels like in our League we are now, mostly, randomly drawing out of a hat, than identifying solid prospects. The inability to turn this new International Free Agency scouting system off is also a big nuisance from our perspective, since we greatly preferred the implementation for International Free Agency that we use and love.

Our owners in this particular online League, love playing OOTP and we have a great League with two great Commissioners and I have to say that this new International Free Agency system has killed the vibe there. Many of the owners don't quite understand the machinations of the new system and are already actively selling off their International Free Agency pool space we use as the currency to bid on International prospects, which is a clear sign that the current implementation of the system is not "hitting the mark". The apparent inability to turn it off is also a large nuisance consider the many other selectable settings that OOTP 24 DOES offer.

Sorry for the long note, but I wanted to actually take the time out of my day to try and write a comprehensive response to the new feature of OOTP 24 and ask that you and your team reconsider the construct and most importantly include a feature that makes it optional to use it.

Thank you for your time and consideration,

Robert Cunningham
ettinone@hotmail.com

This is a "your commissioner doesn't want to fix this problem" issue and not a "OOTP doesn't work for your league" issue as they can literally turn off international free agency with one button in the League Settings --- Players -- Generate International Free Agents and set it to none.

For your league's purposes, you would then self-generate the international free agents that the game generates for you natively, and then they could run any kind of system they'd want externally. Running separate drafts are doable, as are other ideas where players are drafted externally and commissioners could themselves assign the guys to teams after the process ends.

Conversely, as a former commissioner, there are lots of ways that you can off-book setup different draft formats and then assign players including external draft systems using StatsPlus.

Basically, your Commissioners could fix this and it'd be worthwhile for them to talk to other commissioner about ways to fix stuff like this. But yeah, these aren't unique problems or really a big thing that couldn't be solved, assuming your league wanted to. Not a "hey devs fix this" situation.

Woodman19 · 07-13-2023, 03:13 PM

The system I implement (im the Commish of the league in question):

Scouting Discoveries: Off
Starting Pool size: Was 60, now its 124 and then I top up to 600 using created fictional players of "Scrub" quality, 16-17 year old, and raw.

I Set a $1 hard cap and then change it to a $0 hard cap to shut off player demands entirely and then track each teams limit outside of the game on a communal spreadsheet and its a tradable asset.

Only rules are a $100,000 minimum bid and teams must adhere to their budget space. and I simply log the signings as they occur each week after the July signing period begins.

I always hated the idea that some scout would find a kid at Walmart and sign them for free to a team bypassing any bid and the whole thing is frankly lazy and dumb in the base game. Doing it this way we try to mimic the real life signing period and everyone is fair game (no free 80 pot guys appear out of thin air)

We are now entering 2030 and are getting about 200-300 IAFA signed per year with a lot of our earlier classes just starting to make a name for themselves. It has really turned the July period into a sort of 2nd draft and our most active trading period and a huge boon to slack activity. It has also helped league demographics where 1/3 of the league is now an IAFA player of Caribbean nationality rather than the usual 90% Draft player that is generally all American in most default setting leagues over time.

Woodman19 · 07-13-2023, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

This is a "your commissioner doesn't want to fix this problem" issue and not a "OOTP doesn't work for your league" issue as they can literally turn off international free agency with one button in the League Settings --- Players -- Generate International Free Agents and set it to none.

For your league's purposes, you would then self-generate the international free agents that the game generates for you natively, and then they could run any kind of system they'd want externally. Running separate drafts are doable, as are other ideas where players are drafted externally and commissioners could themselves assign the guys to teams after the process ends.

Conversely, as a former commissioner, there are lots of ways that you can off-book setup different draft formats and then assign players including external draft systems using StatsPlus.

Basically, your Commissioners could fix this and it'd be worthwhile for them to talk to other commissioner about ways to fix stuff like this. But yeah, these aren't unique problems or really a big thing that couldn't be solved, assuming your league wanted to. Not a "hey devs fix this" situation.

Well first of all; **** you for assuming im whining

. I more or less said I don't know the system and have to figure out during this season what to do. I also did not say to post anything in here so it is certainly not about me complaining, I spend hours tracking this **** out of game to add a realistic element to the league so its not laziness on my end.

Secondly, you should read what his concern is. Its about the scouting/inviting to meet which has changed the ability of many to scout the 600 player pool from the March-July period before the signings begin, not about the creating the pool.

darkcloud4579 · 07-13-2023, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodman19

The system I implement (im the Commish of the league in question):

Scouting Discoveries: Off
Starting Pool size: Was 60, now its 124 and then I top up to 600 using created fictional players of "Scrub" quality, 16-17 year old, and raw.

I Set a $1 hard cap and then change it to a $0 hard cap to shut off player demands entirely and then track each teams limit outside of the game on a communal spreadsheet and its a tradable asset.

Only rules are a $100,000 minimum bid and teams must adhere to their budget space. and I simply log the signings as they occur each week after the July signing period begins.

I always hated the idea that some scout would find a kid at Walmart and sign them for free to a team bypassing any bid and the whole thing is frankly lazy and dumb in the base game. Doing it this way we try to mimic the real life signing period and everyone is fair game (no free 80 pot guys appear out of thin air)

We are now entering 2030 and are getting about 200-300 IAFA signed per year with a lot of our earlier classes just starting to make a name for themselves. It has really turned the July period into a sort of 2nd draft and our most active trading period and a huge boon to slack activity. It has also helped league demographics where 1/3 of the league is now an IAFA player of Caribbean nationality rather than the usual 90% Draft player that is generally all American in most default setting leagues over time.

Thanks for sharing, always fun to hear how other leagues operate and glad to know the online league community is still creaking along years later. Especially love creative external systems for leagues.

aks62 · 07-13-2023, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

This is a "your commissioner doesn't want to fix this problem" issue and not a "OOTP doesn't work for your league" issue as they can literally turn off international free agency with one button in the League Settings --- Players -- Generate International Free Agents and set it to none.

For your league's purposes, you would then self-generate the international free agents that the game generates for you natively, and then they could run any kind of system they'd want externally. Running separate drafts are doable, as are other ideas where players are drafted externally and commissioners could themselves assign the guys to teams after the process ends.

Conversely, as a former commissioner, there are lots of ways that you can off-book setup different draft formats and then assign players including external draft systems using StatsPlus.

Basically, your Commissioners could fix this and it'd be worthwhile for them to talk to other commissioner about ways to fix stuff like this. But yeah, these aren't unique problems or really a big thing that couldn't be solved, assuming your league wanted to. Not a "hey devs fix this" situation.

Much as I agree, I think having the option to select which IAFA system you want for your league would be preferable. You can do this with the QO/arbitration compensation system; why not do so for IAFA? Having a checkbox toggle on whether you use the new system, old system, or none would solve this and allow players to continue customizing their files to their hearts' content.

Woodman19 · 07-13-2023, 03:21 PM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1668926369

Here is our year to year tracking of IAFA Budget space and signings.

This is the current pool for 2030 and visible demands "shut off"

Woodman19 · 07-13-2023, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

Thanks for sharing, always fun to hear how other leagues operate and glad to know the online league community is still creaking along years later. Especially love creative external systems for leagues.

Also not to brag, but we routinely have 15-20 GM's watching our live sims during the season so its a collection of the top online league GM's. I actively kick inactive or incompetent GM's to keep the league exceptionally competitive and active.

kidd_05_u2 · 07-13-2023, 03:50 PM

Hey Ettinone, it is possible you are assigning too little money to international scouting? I find that if you stray too far below from 25% of the average budget, it can lead to the scout basically dedicating no time to that activity.

darkcloud4579 · 07-13-2023, 04:09 PM

This is a "suggestions" post not a "thread for concern for all of OOTPtopia. Your league (shout out to active online leagues, seriously rad) is just one of many is all I'm saying. Like these specific use cases don't feel like core OOTP problems, but rather, preferences. Certainly not "write an open letter to the developer with your email" level of issue, is all I'm saying.

ettinone · 07-13-2023, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidd_05_u2

Hey Ettinone, it is possible you are assigning too little money to international scouting? I find that if you stray too far below from 25% of the average budget, it can lead to the scout basically dedicating no time to that activity.

I personally apply 30% consistently year-to-year and my scout is 'Outstanding' with International Scouting, so I definitely don't think it is a resource or scout based issue.

Also I updated my original post because I have actually tried to scout some of these International prospects and my scout is not sending me reports and their scouting accuracy has not changed, as well, which seems really weird.

Woodman19 · 07-13-2023, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

This is a "suggestions" post not a "thread for concern for all of OOTPtopia. Your league (shout out to active online leagues, seriously rad) is just one of many is all I'm saying. Like these specific use cases don't feel like core OOTP problems, but rather, preferences. Certainly not "write an open letter to the developer with your email" level of issue, is all I'm saying.

I agree, it should go to Ettinones Trash bin which is where it will ultimately end up lol

ettinone · 07-13-2023, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

This is a "suggestions" post not a "thread for concern for all of OOTPtopia. Your league (shout out to active online leagues, seriously rad) is just one of many is all I'm saying. Like these specific use cases don't feel like core OOTP problems, but rather, preferences. Certainly not "write an open letter to the developer with your email" level of issue, is all I'm saying.

I fully understand that our League may not be fully aligned with other online Leagues, darkcloud, but I did write the note to inform the creators of the game that the International Free Agency system seems to have little impact to making decisions on those INT FA's, due to the quantity of prospects to invite to camp (max 10) and the scouting reports that come out of those camps are minimal for the most part.

There is both a problem (in my opinion, others may disagree) with the way the system is setup (and, again, compare this to the Rule IV draft where you can pull up to 60 or so reports every 1-2 sims and get guys to 'Very High' in short order) and the option to turn it off if you don't like it.

These are both perfectly valid discussion points to bring up to the developers, it's not just a fishing expedition for this particular League I play in (which is, in actuality, the best online League I have been in to-date, hands-down).

The developers may never know the issues if they don't hear it from the OOTP player community, so these concerns do, in fact, apply across the "OOTPtopia".

Tiesenberg · 07-13-2023, 05:29 PM

The 10 player max practice thing is changeable.

League settings -> Rules:

Here you can increase the international practice size from 10 players up to 30 players.

whaleheader · 07-14-2023, 07:10 AM

One thing I'd like the see added is the ability to export/import the IAFA. I can export/import draft pools and regular free agents. I can export full rosters. I can't export/import IAFA. Alternatively, add them to the free agent list or the full rosters.

The inability to be able to update IAFA players makes it impossible for a league to use, for example, real life IAFA classes and the game's IAFA mechanism.

07-13-2023, 02:16 PM	#1
ettinone Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 51	International Free Agency System To Markus, and whom it may concern, So recently my primary online League switched over to OOTP 24. None of us were intimately aware of the changes, including those made to the International Free Agency System and the new scouting camps. Previously, the Commissioners of this League would set up a pool of 600 International prospects and we would use our scouts to scout them, leading up to the International free agency draft. This pool of International prospects drops right after the beginning of the season, giving each owner about 3 1/2 game months to scout (and there is a small overlap to the actual Rule IV draft, creating considerations for where you focus your scout's activities). Each of the owners could then competitively bid against each other using an identified pool of International free agency pool space, which was typically around $5M based on each team's previous year's revenue and you could trade for more, up to a maximum of $8M. Then you would use available payroll space, up to that maximum, to make your bids and acquire players. This new International Free Agency System has effectively killed what we have been using and enjoying in the system we have been using for several game years. I know that you and your team Markus are probably trying to reflect reality in the game, but the effect of the changes has left most, if not all, of the owners in our League scratching our heads. Case in point: You can only bring a maximum of 10 prospects to camp each month. Each team's scout observes these players in camp and "sways" them to like your team more, per the new rules. Unfortunately, the actual effect is that your scout, at BEST, seems to raise the scouting level from 'Very Low' to 'Low' or 'Average' at best, based on limited insight from other owners and those who play the game in single-player mode. The impact is that having a scout who is good at International scouting seems to be relatively ineffective (and if it is, you really can't "see" it or "feel" it). Additionally, out of a pool of 600 International prospects in our League, it heavily limits each owner to scouting 10 prospects per month (thus we can only scout about 30-40 maximum, due to when the pool drops) and it really effectively neuters our ability to understand if any particular prospect is good or not, in combination with the poor scouting accuracies. This new system seemingly runs counter to the efficiency and effectiveness a Major League scout has in the Rule IV draft, where the scout can pull in upwards of 60 reports every week or two of simulating, effectively scouting hundreds of prospects up to 'Very High', in a relatively short amount of time. From a 10,000-foot level the new International Free Agency system seems to make scouts who have high International scouting ratings nearly useless, as they can only get scouting up to 'Low' or 'Average' on anywhere from 30-120 prospects with none of them ever getting to 'High' or 'Very High'. It feels like in our League we are now, mostly, randomly drawing out of a hat, than identifying solid prospects. The inability to turn this new International Free Agency scouting system off is also a big nuisance from our perspective, since we greatly preferred the implementation for International Free Agency that we use and love. Our owners in this particular online League, love playing OOTP and we have a great League with two great Commissioners and I have to say that this new International Free Agency system has killed the vibe there. Many of the owners don't quite understand the machinations of the new system and are already actively selling off their International Free Agency pool space we use as the currency to bid on International prospects, which is a clear sign that the current implementation of the system is not "hitting the mark". The apparent inability to turn it off is also a large nuisance consider the many other selectable settings that OOTP 24 DOES offer. Sorry for the long note, but I wanted to actually take the time out of my day to try and write a comprehensive response to the new feature of OOTP 24 and ask that you and your team reconsider the construct and most importantly include a feature that makes it optional to use it. Thank you for your time and consideration, Robert Cunningham ettinone@hotmail.com UPDATE: One other item I left off is that I purposely have been having my scout target certain International Free Agent players and the scouting is not happening. I've done a handful of scouting reports on certain players and the scout does not scout them and does not provide a report. Last edited by ettinone; 07-13-2023 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Update

07-13-2023, 03:03 PM	#2
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 299	What mechanism do you use to restrict the signings? Are int. players added to the free agent pool? Is the bidding done outside the game? Since MLB is headed toward a draft in the future, we'll be separating our Rookie Draft into two versions domestic and international. In that case, it would be nice to be able to label/differentiate the multiple drafts in the game. Anyway, what's the league site? I'd love to learn more about your system.

07-13-2023, 03:13 PM	#4
Woodman19 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 96	The system I implement (im the Commish of the league in question): Scouting Discoveries: Off Starting Pool size: Was 60, now its 124 and then I top up to 600 using created fictional players of "Scrub" quality, 16-17 year old, and raw. I Set a $1 hard cap and then change it to a $0 hard cap to shut off player demands entirely and then track each teams limit outside of the game on a communal spreadsheet and its a tradable asset. Only rules are a $100,000 minimum bid and teams must adhere to their budget space. and I simply log the signings as they occur each week after the July signing period begins. I always hated the idea that some scout would find a kid at Walmart and sign them for free to a team bypassing any bid and the whole thing is frankly lazy and dumb in the base game. Doing it this way we try to mimic the real life signing period and everyone is fair game (no free 80 pot guys appear out of thin air) We are now entering 2030 and are getting about 200-300 IAFA signed per year with a lot of our earlier classes just starting to make a name for themselves. It has really turned the July period into a sort of 2nd draft and our most active trading period and a huge boon to slack activity. It has also helped league demographics where 1/3 of the league is now an IAFA player of Caribbean nationality rather than the usual 90% Draft player that is generally all American in most default setting leagues over time.

07-13-2023, 03:21 PM	#8
Woodman19 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 96	https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1668926369 Here is our year to year tracking of IAFA Budget space and signings. This is the current pool for 2030 and visible demands "shut off"

07-13-2023, 03:50 PM	#10
kidd_05_u2 All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 521	Hey Ettinone, it is possible you are assigning too little money to international scouting? I find that if you stray too far below from 25% of the average budget, it can lead to the scout basically dedicating no time to that activity.

07-13-2023, 04:09 PM	#11
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,685	This is a "suggestions" post not a "thread for concern for all of OOTPtopia. Your league (shout out to active online leagues, seriously rad) is just one of many is all I'm saying. Like these specific use cases don't feel like core OOTP problems, but rather, preferences. Certainly not "write an open letter to the developer with your email" level of issue, is all I'm saying.

07-13-2023, 05:29 PM	#15
Tiesenberg Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 307	The 10 player max practice thing is changeable. League settings -> Rules: Here you can increase the international practice size from 10 players up to 30 players.

07-14-2023, 07:10 AM	#16
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 299	One thing I'd like the see added is the ability to export/import the IAFA. I can export/import draft pools and regular free agents. I can export full rosters. I can't export/import IAFA. Alternatively, add them to the free agent list or the full rosters. The inability to be able to update IAFA players makes it impossible for a league to use, for example, real life IAFA classes and the game's IAFA mechanism.