Gonegold.com statement of something big?

[I Am The Game]

[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:
<strong>Let me clarify what I mean by the position in the batting order helps dictate how the batter will hit.

Placing someone in the 4 slot will not generate more homers unless he is a power hitter, batting leadoff will not generate more steals or hits unless he is a speedy runner or a great hitter. What is will do is if you put a power hitter in the 3,4,5,6 slot, he will generate more power as he will be pitched differently than if the power hitter was in the 8 slot or batting in front of a weak hitter. The 8 hitter does not get good pitches to hit as the pitcher is due up next.

As an example, I had Piazza batting 6th or 7th with a weak hitter behind him, he did not always generate good numbers, when I moved him to the 4th slot, he generated better power numbers as he had a better hitter behind him.

This did not always work this way as simming in HH gives different results just as in real life. Then again, it may be my imagination. Anyone else noticed this? And no, Martinez would not steal bases at the top of the order as he has no speed. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well wait a minute. What you mentioned isn't a player generating more power numbers hitting cleanup than if he would hit 8th. That's just him having more protection. That's not HH, that's every game and baseball itself. If you batted Bonds cleanup around a bunch of 18 year old Single-Aers he won't put up the power numbers, he'd have an OBP of around .600, but he wouldn't have the .825 slugging.

[I Am The Game]

[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:
[QB]50 steals should not happen at 39 years old for a slow player no matter what the ratings. I hope ootp4 TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE AGE FACTOR!
QB]<hr></blockquote>
Again, that's the roster having a good speed steal factor.
Look at Rickey, at Age 42 last year he hit .227, only played 123 games and still stole 25 bases.
If Ichiro is still burning around the basepaths at Age 39, he too is going to steal a lot of bases.
Age has very little to do with it. If a player is still fast (Like Rolen gave him) he's going to run.
A player may regress quickly, but if you put someone at Age 60 with A-A for Speed-Steal and gave him 60 HRs Vs. Both he would probably have an MVP Season. But that's becauase of the RATINGS he was given by the ROSTER MAKERS. Not the Game Developers.

[Yossarian]

[quote]Originally posted by I Am The Game:
<strong>
Well wait a minute. What you mentioned isn't a player generating more power numbers hitting cleanup than if he would hit 8th. That's just him having more protection. That's not HH, that's every game and baseball itself.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Does OOTP simulate this?

[Scott Vibert]

[quote]Originally posted by Yossarian:
<strong>

Does OOTP simulate this?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nope, its not a pitch by pitch sim and I'd be surprised if HH was really simulating this either (despite being pitch by pitch)... I think its more of a perceived thing than an actual feature.

[Yossarian]

I wonder though how often the AI decides to "pitch around" potent hitters in OOTP. It would be interesting to see a log of the strategy decisions the AI makes throughout the course of a game.

[Scott Vibert]

[quote]Originally posted by Yossarian:
<strong>I wonder though how often the AI decides to "pitch around" potent hitters in OOTP. It would be interesting to see a log of the strategy decisions the AI makes throughout the course of a game.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Could definitely be interesting, unfortunately we aren't shown that throughout the course of the game.... but definitely would be interesting... (this is actually something that would be good for the beta test versions to have so that we can better check the AI's decisions).

[JML]

[quote]Originally posted by Yossarian:
<strong>I wonder though how often the AI decides to "pitch around" potent hitters in OOTP. It would be interesting to see a log of the strategy decisions the AI makes throughout the course of a game.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I sort of thought this WAS in OOTP. Just a greater propensity to choose "pitch around" if the on-deck hitter is significantly worse than the guy batting. It seems that this would be relatively easy to code. Then again, other factors (# of outs, who's on base and where) are also important in the decision to issue an "unintentional intentional walk". But I'm not a programmer so my opinion is worth LESS than what you paid for it.

[Hammer755]

[quote]Originally posted by JML:
<strong>I sort of thought this WAS in OOTP. </strong><hr></blockquote>

The 'Pitch Around' option is already in the game, but you can't tell when the computer uses it. I think that's what Scott was referring to.

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</p>

[Rpmbucs]

It was mentioned ealier in this thread about how baseball was a visual art and how animation would enhance the game. To me my earliest memories of baseball were by listening to games out of Chicago on the radio. I think alot of ootpers were notebook stats,dice and making up rules and leagues in our heads. Personally there isnt much that animation would add to this game for me. Part of my love for baseball is the eternal game that is played in my mind, no extra graphics needed.

[Cooleyvol]

I want NO part of graphics in OOTP. If I want graphics, I'll dust off HH and "play" a game. OOTP wasnt designed as a graphic depiction of baseball, its a "thinking man's" game.

I don't need help "seeing" Walter Dildy spin a 2-hit shutout of the Sioux City Sharecroppers for my Union City Greyhounds. Its already in my head.

[Mike D]

It's like reading a book. You don't need to see what's going on, you can imagine it yourself. I don't mind watching a game being simulated in video form every once in a while, but for 162+, I would get frustrated cause my players would be swinging at bad pitches. If I wanted to, in High Heat, playing out the games myself, I could hit .400 easy. Is that realistic? Nope.

[JML]

Yeah, OOTP is like an RPG for statheads. Graphics would ruin the whole imaginative aspect of it. There was a time when I felt differently, but when I tried using photos in my fictional league, I realized that they were conflicting with the way I imagine the players. I think animated, arcade-style graphics would do the same thing.

[Jason Moyer]

[quote]Originally posted by Hammer755:
<strong>

The 'Pitch Around' option is already in the game, but you can't tell when the computer uses it. I think that's what Scott was referring to.

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would imagine that the pitch counts would give it away. Obviously without pitch-by-pitch you can't see exactly what happens, but I've noticed that putting an amazing player one spot in the order above a poor player will result in the amazing player having more frequent 3-1 and 3-0 counts.

Not a 100% thing since we don't have pitch-by-pitch play-by-play, but over the long term you can see a definite trend as to whom the computer is pitching around and make appropriate lineup adjustments.

Jason

[MetsRon2002]

Visuals and sounds are the way to go these days. Look at movie theaters, if they are not big screen and surround sound they are out of business.

I can hear a game with real player, but there is nothing like actually seeing the play rather than hearing or reading about it.

Whenever I hear "oh what a play!" I am flipping all the sports channels on TV to catch the highlights. Radio cannot do that. I do love reading a book though.

YankeePride, thanks for someone understanding my points about HH and OOTP4. I play both and am hooked on both. I just don't see what the attacks against HH is for. I think everyone is talking about the PS2 version which is geared toward arcade players and the PC version of HH is geared toward the arcade/sim player.

[DavidM]

You also have to consider the cost to add quality sound and graphics. I remember in the past reading about Strat-o-matic's attempts to add graphics to there computer sim. The results were poor and they removed them a few versions later.

To create quality animation for a game like this would require Markus hiring many artists to create something worthwhile. This would be very expensive in development terms, while adding little to OOTP except it's price tag.

[DavidM]

You also have to consider the cost to add quality sound and graphics. I remember in the past reading about Strat-o-matic's attempts to add graphics to there computer sim. The results were poor and they removed them a few versions later.

To create quality animation for a game like this would require Markus hiring many artists to create something worthwhile. This would be very expensive in development terms, while adding little to OOTP except it's price tag.

[I Am The Game]

[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:
<strong>YankeePride, thanks for someone understanding my points about HH and OOTP4. I play both and am hooked on both. I just don't see what the attacks against HH is for. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe this was mentioned before but you didn't get it, or whatever it was. But you aren't necassarily being "attacked", nor is HH. Well, they aren't being "attacked" if you aren't attacking OOTP4 saying it's "minor league" because you have to download add-ons which don't take all that much time. Some people got defensive when you called OOTP minor league and then started praising high heat, that's all. But downloading the add-ons aren't as bad as you're making it seem. Besides, I'd rather spend three hours downloading a bunch of add-ons for free than have to pay an extra $20 to get everything right from the start.

EDIT - Grammar

[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: I Am The Game ]</p>

[DHS23]

[quote]Originally posted by DavidM:
<strong>You also have to consider the cost to add quality sound and graphics. I remember in the past reading about Strat-o-matic's attempts to add graphics to there computer sim. The results were poor and they removed them a few versions later.

To create quality animation for a game like this would require Markus hiring many artists to create something worthwhile. This would be very expensive in development terms, while adding little to OOTP except it's price tag.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Creating quality animations would probably also make us wait for much longer before we get OOTP5.

If the animations weren't up to what people want, they'd be complaining about them constantly. The plus side to this is that the game would still come out in a year and a few months.

If the animations are top notch, then people would start complaining about the wait constantly. We probably wouldn't get the game till almost two years.

[Hammer755]

[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:
<strong>Visuals and sounds are the way to go these days. Look at movie theaters, if they are not big screen and surround sound they are out of business.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

MetsRON, I think the difference between you and the rest of us is you think of a baseball sim as a movie to be played on a big-screen theater, whereas the majority of the rest of us think of a baseball sim as a thick, stat-filled, chock full of formulas, Bill James Abstract. I don't think you're wrong to think this way, just different from me.

[Aussie Mark]

[quote]Originally posted by Carplos:
<strong>

The Bonds thing is Rolen's fault, he did a great job with the rosters, but everyone makes mistakes, usually guys speed does degenerate as they get older, but you edit them when they're 39 to still have blazing speed. Though, if Henderson got on the right minded team (like the Phillies), he could probably still steal 30-40 bases.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Rickey only played 123 games last year and swiped 25, so it's definitely possible. He stole 66 aged 39 in 1998.