Gonegold.com statement of something big? - Page 4

Psicosis · 03-13-2002, 04:19 PM

I'm not buying HH this year, but did last year. It was a fun game, but the minor league AI was shaky at best. It was common to see 32 year olds in A and unpromising 18 year olds in AAA. It was really frustrating.

Dargone · 03-13-2002, 04:33 PM

I agree with Scott about the MLB license, not needed. Also keep EA away from OOTP4, I think I would keel over

MJohnson · 03-13-2002, 04:44 PM

I hope the major annoucnement is a brand new Jethro Tull album

MetsRon2002 · 03-13-2002, 04:49 PM

Thanks for the info on printing out the minor league stats reports.

I will be playing OOTP4 for simming and High Heat for action.

JML · 03-13-2002, 05:03 PM

[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:
Thanks for the info on printing out the minor league stats reports.

.<hr></blockquote>

BTW, anything that comes up in static, "report-style" can be printed out in the same fashion. Just look for the buttons. With OOTP3, it took awhile before I even noticed them.

Carplos · 03-13-2002, 06:08 PM

I like HH for playing a game, but for a sim, it pretty much blows.

Shorty · 03-13-2002, 06:21 PM

Seriously, with OOTP3, I was using real rosters

But alas, in OOTP4: I started United States Baseball in 1960, with 8 teams representing 8 states. I've simmed 40 years, now up to 36 teams. My goal is to reach 50 teams(one for each state) by the time I start playing. I expect to sim around 60-70 years before playing. Mass history.

Go Tribe · 03-13-2002, 06:53 PM

My guess is the online play by play will be released

Mike D · 03-13-2002, 07:32 PM

By your name MetsRon I can see you have a desire to blindly follow things that will doom

But seriously, I have played all the High Heat games, and whil I may have liked 2001, which everyone says is the worst, I hated 2002 as it always crashed to desktop, and I could not play a single game with it. And I know I could have gone to tech support and asked them why it wasn't working, but I like my games playable out of the box, WITHOUT having to ask someone how do I get it to stop crashing. I will not buy 2003 because it's a roster update with the same engine. How do I know? Well, when the developers were publishing screenshot on the internet a couple of weeks ago, every HH advertisement said 2002.... You can tell they don't care as much about HH on the PC as much as the do on the PS2, so why should I care about them. I admit I'm still a new OOTP player, only played the last two, but I have to tell you, IMO there isn't a better baseball game out there, period. And you can see the Minor League leaders in the League Leaders section... Phew, now my fingers hurt....

[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Mike D ]

Aussie Mark · 03-13-2002, 08:16 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:
What this game needs is the MLB license. Otherwise, it is still in the minors. I want to manage a Major League team. I can dl rosters and other items, but they should be included when you buy the game.

Why? They'd be out of date a week after the game is released. Third party rosters are the best option, as they are being constantly updated

There are lots of consumers out there that do not want to be bothered with downloading rosters. logos, stadiums, facepacks and more to make their game complete. Especially when they can buy a competing product that inlcudes these.

To be blunt, there isn't a competing product for OOTP at this point in time, given that there aren't any other text based baseball sims that provide historical career/replay mode at no extra cost.

For me, I was able to dl them, but I still cannot get the face pack to work.

Have you tried searching these forums for help?

also, there should be some sound or music to the game as it should be windows compliant.

My copy of Microsoft Excel is Windows compliant, but doesn't play music. Please understand that OOTP is NOT a competitor for High Heat, Triple Play etc. I may be wrong, but I would guess that the vast majority of users here do not want animation, sound or music in a text based statistical sim.

I am very much enjoying the game - I only wish that I had a more official MLB roster to feel like a real sim.

Which "real sim" are you referring to?

Aussie Mark · 03-13-2002, 08:22 PM

[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:
How do you develop players in OOTP4 if the minor league stats are erased at the end of the year? it is alot of trouble and clicking to develop players<hr></blockquote>

1. By looking at current ratings versus talent levels
2. Managing spring training
3. By promoting players when your coaches tell you they're ready.

CLWBaseball · 03-13-2002, 08:27 PM

I hope that guess is right on, GoTribe.

I thought I remembered pre-release that the game would have the ability to have play-by-play uploaded as it happens to an ftp server, but then never heard about it again....

John C · 03-13-2002, 09:33 PM

Ok, here goes.

I play baseball games mainly for the purpose of playing an in internet league. I founded the eMLB (shameless plug, <a href="http://www.emlb-baseball.com)" target="_blank">www.emlb-baseball.com)</a> while I was running the MLEB (DreamTeams' league which he handed to me...look for his Metros League to learn about the MLEB). The MLEB ran on FPS, which I considered to be the best game ever. That is, until HH2k1 came out.

And I was flabbergasted at how great the game was, and how complete everything was. And the eMLB has been a huge success. We moved to HH2k2 (was a disaster, as HH2k1 is more offensive than HH2k2...I say disaster because it changed the playing field. Being a pitcher myself, I enjoy pitcher's duels and the like). Anyway, we moved to HH2k2, and that game was more fluid than HH2k1, in terms of web friendliness.

The game lent itself to web leagues. However, it lost focus with its main goal, which was solid gameplay. I'm not trying to stir controversy on a game that isn't the focus of this board, and I'm not saying that the gameplay in HH is bad. I love it for computer leagues. For sim leagues, it's not bad, and certainly better than before. But the game (HH2k2, cannot use HH2k3 here) is extremely buggy, and had a patch that did more harm than good. The game has a lot of errors with it, but what game doesn't?

When I moved from the MLEB to the eMLB, it was because I saw a natural progression from FPS to HH. I see the same natural progression from HH to OOTP. The simple fact that everything is editable in OOTP puts it above High Heat. When I can create a league I play in during the summers (Harrisburg, PA area Twilight League), and I don't have to use Veterans Stadium, or the Polo Grounds to play in it, I consider that a plus. And when I can edit the stats to how I want them to come out by using raw numbers, rather than play with that damn tune file...oy, the pb.ini FPS file comes to mind, and I'd rather not remember that...but using actual numbers to generate the stats you want...that's just great.

High Heat dropped the ball to its loyal fans in many regards. Where was the hype for the PC version this year? If there was much, I was missing it. Heck, I think there really wasn't a word said about it until two weeks before the release. The "screen shots" released by 3DO were High Heat 2002 screens. That's obvious in how 2k3 looks, among other things. The patch, which was supposed to fix numerous things last year, took away one of the most innovative features of the game, the mound visit.

OOTP4's first patch was released 48 hours within release. Not only did it cover some bugs, it also added some things to the game. Who knows what the second patch will have?

3DO used to listen to the fans, some of the most loyal people I've ever seen (on a message board, or a fan site, I'll grant that. But loyal nonetheless.). When the developer(s) of the game frequent the message boards and engage in conversation with people, that says a lot to me.

3DO creates a great game. But their support sucks, and they've stopped caring it seems. People didn't even know if a PC version would even be released this year, and it's much more unlikely that one will come out next year.

Right now, the only thing that has High Heat coming off of shelves is Danger Z's editor, and it appears that 3DO is buying that from Eric (at least from the HH message boards on BBSC. If someone knows otherwise, please correct me).

Alright, I'm done rambling. And my pick (hope) for the patch update is the pitch-by-pitch option (I know it would take longer to sim, but for unique cases, such as a live broadcast feature for my soon-to-be baseball league, it would be nice. Lets owners play against one another, and every pitch means something in terms of strategy. I know this may be tough to work in, but damn, I'd think I had died and gone to heaven if I see that).

Peace
John

MetsRon2002 · 03-14-2002, 02:37 AM

Aussie Mark

There are lots of consumers out there that do not want to be bothered with downloading rosters. logos, stadiums, facepacks and more to make their game complete. Especially when they can buy a competing product that inlcudes these.

To be blunt, there isn't a competing product for OOTP at this point in time, given that there aren't any other text based baseball sims that provide historical career/replay mode at no extra cost.

-I speaking of HH2001 - it has great arcade type action that sims pretty good to manage only that is also awesome since it has graphics and sound. I will still be playing HH3 along with OOTP4. HH3 is easier on the eyes for information. OOTP4 is very detailed which I love!

_as for the windows complaint, IT IS! I found out on this site how to make it into a window so that I can play and use the computer while simming. Thanks.

I am very much enjoying the game - I only wish that I had a more official MLB roster to feel like a real sim.

Which "real sim" are you referring to?

-Any baseball sim that uses real rosters. I have simmed about 20 years using HH3 and they have all been a blast! The only thing missing was the financial/GM part in OOTP4.

HH does crash, what game does not. And you can get rosters and other dl's for HH as well. I was just referring to HH includes everything in the box, not OOTP4. And they both cost the same.

chrisj · 03-14-2002, 04:16 AM

[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:

-Any baseball sim that uses real rosters. I have simmed about 20 years using HH3 and they have all been a blast! The only thing missing was the financial/GM part in OOTP4.
<hr></blockquote>

But, if OOTP4 was to be a "real sim" (by your def), then you'd have to drop the financial/GM part of OOTP4... would it really be worth it?

MetsRon2002 · 03-14-2002, 05:00 AM

ChrisJ

What I mean be "real sim" is using major league players and stats. Make believe players is OK, but the major leagues is what I want to simulate. I know the stats are there, but it would be to much work to change the names of up to 700+ players.

That is why I use the Rolen rosters. What I like about HH is that putting a player in a certain batting order in the lineup produces different results. Such as the 4 hitter hits for better power than if he was in the 8th slot. Try this in HH and you will see that batting orders make a difference.

I have simmed over 40 years in HH 2001, all had good accuracy and I have enjoyed the game thoroughly. But, I always wanted the financial part like OOTP4. Hard choice to make. For now I will play both until one pulls me to it more than the other.

chrisj · 03-14-2002, 05:22 AM

[quote]

What I mean be "real sim" is using major league players and stats. Make believe players is OK, but the major leagues is what I want to simulate. I know the stats are there, but it would be to much work to change the names of up to 700+ players.
<hr></blockquote>

I know... my comment was based on the fact that if you want financials/free agents/etc, then you might have to settle for downloading your rosters, because to have 'real rosters' come with the game, you'd have to give that up.

[quote]

What I like about HH is that putting a player in a certain batting order in the lineup produces different results. Such as the 4 hitter hits for better power than if he was in the 8th slot. Try this in HH and you will see that batting orders make a difference.
<hr></blockquote>

Huh!? Are you saying that if you put a player in the 4th slot, he will hit more home runs than if he is in the 8th spot? If so, that is a HUGE bug. A player should hit the same number of home runs no matter where he hits in the lineup - his RBIs or runs scored might be different - but HRs would be the same. You'll see the same thing in OOTP.

Batting orders make a difference in baseball.

[quote]

I have simmed over 40 years in HH 2001, all had good accuracy and I have enjoyed the game thoroughly. But, I always wanted the financial part like OOTP4. Hard choice to make. For now I will play both until one pulls me to it more than the other.<hr></blockquote>

Same here... (although I love OOTP4 more for being more in depth).

Scott Vibert · 03-14-2002, 05:32 AM

[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002:

That is why I use the Rolen rosters. What I like about HH is that putting a player in a certain batting order in the lineup produces different results. Such as the 4 hitter hits for better power than if he was in the 8th slot. Try this in HH and you will see that batting orders make a difference.
<hr></blockquote>

Does this really happen in HH?

I can't believe that is true, does this mean that if Barry Bonds hit in the 8th spot in the order he'd hit fewer home runs (well probably, since he'd be walked each time). What about the players ability changes just because one manager puts the player in a certain spot of the order?

On the other hand I think I've figured out what to do to make Edgar Martinez a base stealing threat, I just have to hit him lead off, and if I want Ichiro to hit for more power I just have to bat him clean up, and since I don't really like Juan Gonzalez, I'll hit him 8th and watch his numbers suffer

makes sense to me.

I really hope that, that doesn't really happen in HH... obviously its not realistic for someone's characteristics to change if they hit in a different spot of the order.

Henry · 03-14-2002, 05:41 AM

MetsRon2002,

I've been following this thread for awhile and have to admit I'm a bit confused on some of your points... let me clarify.

First of all, almost all of the issue you bring up are possible in OOTP... lineups, minors development, things like spring training, stadiums, logos, financials - everything except animation.

Being a past HH gamer, I will agree that there's some screens in HH I like better - but overall I can do all those things in OOTP and more... it's just that some are done differently.

Two major points... (ONE) Once a game gives in to MLB licensing, the developer is severely restricted on what he can and can't do (for example, can't use money - must use points) and the price has to go up so the MLBPA gets their cut. With OOTP, The availability of the Lehman database allows real players and costs nothing other than the time and effort to download. I'm perfectly willing to do that to be able to use real money in my financials instead of points.

It's also important to realize that the Lehman database is not "owned" by Markus & Co. so there is no control over it as far as accuracy, etc. It is the people on this board such as Rolen that offer their time to improve that part of the game.

(TWO) Don't lose site of the fact that OOTP, although it can be used with real players, was designed with a different goal in mind. It was designed to give the player the truest sense possible of running a ballclub. In that sense, it HAS TO, by definition, NOT attempt to replay stats that have already been recorded. Diamond Mind and others are their for that purpose. OOTP uses the Lehman database to obtain stats, convert them to ratings and talent levels, then add enough randomness to the equation to allow anything to happen - thus giving you, the player, the reality of dealing with the unexpected. Barry Bonds will likely perform like Barry Bonds - but he will not duplicate his stats to the accuracy a game like Diamond Mind might. Any MLB player may take on a totally different path of success - thus the excitement of OOTP.

In the world of fictional players, this becomes even more exciting becasue "Randy Holloway" is a "non entity" meaning I don't know him from Adam other than my scout says he's the next Roger Clemens... only time will tell

and that's the beauty of OOTP.

What most of this HH versus OOTP versus DMB issue comes down to is what you, as an individual expect from the game. Each game has (and should have) a different audience. I love OOTP because of the fictional aspect - you may love HH because of the animations - and someone else may love DMB becasue Barry will be within 5% of his actual 2001 statistics. All different goals...

Well, I've droned on enough - hell, I could have made this an article !! LOL Just keep in mind we all have different wants and the choice of games provides the most to the most people

bkurtz · 03-14-2002, 08:29 AM

[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib:

I can't believe that is true, does this mean that if Barry Bonds hit in the 8th spot in the order he'd hit fewer home runs (well probably, since he'd be walked each time.<hr></blockquote>

he would have less at bats

anyway, i don't own hh but, like henry, i don't quite understand either.

03-13-2002, 04:33 PM	#62
Dargone Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Interwebs Posts: 2,862	I agree with Scott about the MLB license, not needed. Also keep EA away from OOTP4, I think I would keel over __________________ I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell

03-13-2002, 05:03 PM	#65
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002: <strong>Thanks for the info on printing out the minor league stats reports. .</strong><hr></blockquote> BTW, anything that comes up in static, "report-style" can be printed out in the same fashion. Just look for the buttons. With OOTP3, it took awhile before I even noticed them.

03-13-2002, 06:21 PM	#67
Shorty All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 992	Seriously, with OOTP3, I was using real rosters But alas, in OOTP4: I started United States Baseball in 1960, with 8 teams representing 8 states. I've simmed 40 years, now up to 36 teams. My goal is to reach 50 teams(one for each state) by the time I start playing. I expect to sim around 60-70 years before playing. Mass history. __________________ Here we go Redlegs here we go!

03-13-2002, 07:32 PM	#69
Mike D Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: In a van, down by the river Posts: 2,802	By your name MetsRon I can see you have a desire to blindly follow things that will doom But seriously, I have played all the High Heat games, and whil I may have liked 2001, which everyone says is the worst, I hated 2002 as it always crashed to desktop, and I could not play a single game with it. And I know I could have gone to tech support and asked them why it wasn't working, but I like my games playable out of the box, WITHOUT having to ask someone how do I get it to stop crashing. I will not buy 2003 because it's a roster update with the same engine. How do I know? Well, when the developers were publishing screenshot on the internet a couple of weeks ago, every HH advertisement said 2002.... You can tell they don't care as much about HH on the PC as much as the do on the PS2, so why should I care about them. I admit I'm still a new OOTP player, only played the last two, but I have to tell you, IMO there isn't a better baseball game out there, period. And you can see the Minor League leaders in the League Leaders section... Phew, now my fingers hurt.... [ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Mike D ]</p> __________________ Sometimes the best laid plans will never get you laid the way you plan.

03-13-2002, 08:16 PM	#70
Aussie Mark Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Downunder Posts: 489	[QUOTE]Originally posted by MetsRon2002: What this game needs is the MLB license. Otherwise, it is still in the minors. I want to manage a Major League team. I can dl rosters and other items, but they should be included when you buy the game. Why? They'd be out of date a week after the game is released. Third party rosters are the best option, as they are being constantly updated There are lots of consumers out there that do not want to be bothered with downloading rosters. logos, stadiums, facepacks and more to make their game complete. Especially when they can buy a competing product that inlcudes these. To be blunt, there isn't a competing product for OOTP at this point in time, given that there aren't any other text based baseball sims that provide historical career/replay mode at no extra cost. For me, I was able to dl them, but I still cannot get the face pack to work. Have you tried searching these forums for help? also, there should be some sound or music to the game as it should be windows compliant. My copy of Microsoft Excel is Windows compliant, but doesn't play music. Please understand that OOTP is NOT a competitor for High Heat, Triple Play etc. I may be wrong, but I would guess that the vast majority of users here do not want animation, sound or music in a text based statistical sim. I am very much enjoying the game - I only wish that I had a more official MLB roster to feel like a real sim. Which "real sim" are you referring to? __________________ Cheers Mark

03-13-2002, 04:19 PM	#61
Psicosis Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 228	I'm not buying HH this year, but did last year. It was a fun game, but the minor league AI was shaky at best. It was common to see 32 year olds in A and unpromising 18 year olds in AAA. It was really frustrating.

03-13-2002, 04:44 PM	#63
MJohnson Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: under an overpass Posts: 459	I hope the major annoucnement is a brand new Jethro Tull album

03-13-2002, 04:49 PM	#64
MetsRon2002 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 28	Thanks for the info on printing out the minor league stats reports. I will be playing OOTP4 for simming and High Heat for action.

03-13-2002, 06:08 PM	#66
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,847 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I like HH for playing a game, but for a sim, it pretty much blows.

03-13-2002, 06:53 PM	#68
Go Tribe All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,534 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	My guess is the online play by play will be released

03-13-2002, 08:22 PM	#71
Aussie Mark Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Downunder Posts: 489	[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002: <strong>How do you develop players in OOTP4 if the minor league stats are erased at the end of the year? it is alot of trouble and clicking to develop players</strong><hr></blockquote> 1. By looking at current ratings versus talent levels 2. Managing spring training 3. By promoting players when your coaches tell you they're ready. __________________ Cheers Mark

03-13-2002, 08:27 PM	#72
CLWBaseball Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vegas, baby! Posts: 33	I hope that guess is right on, GoTribe. I thought I remembered pre-release that the game would have the ability to have play-by-play uploaded as it happens to an ftp server, but then never heard about it again.... __________________ <a href="http://www.clwbaseball.com/league" target="_blank">CLWB</a> Commish

03-13-2002, 09:33 PM	#73
John C Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Albion, RI Posts: 2,261 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Ok, here goes. I play baseball games mainly for the purpose of playing an in internet league. I founded the eMLB (shameless plug, <a href="http://www.emlb-baseball.com)" target="_blank">www.emlb-baseball.com)</a> while I was running the MLEB (DreamTeams' league which he handed to me...look for his Metros League to learn about the MLEB). The MLEB ran on FPS, which I considered to be the best game ever. That is, until HH2k1 came out. And I was flabbergasted at how great the game was, and how complete everything was. And the eMLB has been a huge success. We moved to HH2k2 (was a disaster, as HH2k1 is more offensive than HH2k2...I say disaster because it changed the playing field. Being a pitcher myself, I enjoy pitcher's duels and the like). Anyway, we moved to HH2k2, and that game was more fluid than HH2k1, in terms of web friendliness. The game lent itself to web leagues. However, it lost focus with its main goal, which was solid gameplay. I'm not trying to stir controversy on a game that isn't the focus of this board, and I'm not saying that the gameplay in HH is bad. I love it for computer leagues. For sim leagues, it's not bad, and certainly better than before. But the game (HH2k2, cannot use HH2k3 here) is extremely buggy, and had a patch that did more harm than good. The game has a lot of errors with it, but what game doesn't? When I moved from the MLEB to the eMLB, it was because I saw a natural progression from FPS to HH. I see the same natural progression from HH to OOTP. The simple fact that everything is editable in OOTP puts it above High Heat. When I can create a league I play in during the summers (Harrisburg, PA area Twilight League), and I don't have to use Veterans Stadium, or the Polo Grounds to play in it, I consider that a plus. And when I can edit the stats to how I want them to come out by using raw numbers, rather than play with that damn tune file...oy, the pb.ini FPS file comes to mind, and I'd rather not remember that...but using actual numbers to generate the stats you want...that's just great. High Heat dropped the ball to its loyal fans in many regards. Where was the hype for the PC version this year? If there was much, I was missing it. Heck, I think there really wasn't a word said about it until two weeks before the release. The "screen shots" released by 3DO were High Heat 2002 screens. That's obvious in how 2k3 looks, among other things. The patch, which was supposed to fix numerous things last year, took away one of the most innovative features of the game, the mound visit. OOTP4's first patch was released 48 hours within release. Not only did it cover some bugs, it also added some things to the game. Who knows what the second patch will have? 3DO used to listen to the fans, some of the most loyal people I've ever seen (on a message board, or a fan site, I'll grant that. But loyal nonetheless.). When the developer(s) of the game frequent the message boards and engage in conversation with people, that says a lot to me. 3DO creates a great game. But their support sucks, and they've stopped caring it seems. People didn't even know if a PC version would even be released this year, and it's much more unlikely that one will come out next year. Right now, the only thing that has High Heat coming off of shelves is Danger Z's editor, and it appears that 3DO is buying that from Eric (at least from the HH message boards on BBSC. If someone knows otherwise, please correct me). Alright, I'm done rambling. And my pick (hope) for the patch update is the pitch-by-pitch option (I know it would take longer to sim, but for unique cases, such as a live broadcast feature for my soon-to-be baseball league, it would be nice. Lets owners play against one another, and every pitch means something in terms of strategy. I know this may be tough to work in, but damn, I'd think I had died and gone to heaven if I see that). Peace John __________________ Facebook \| My Videos

03-14-2002, 02:37 AM	#74
MetsRon2002 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 28	Aussie Mark There are lots of consumers out there that do not want to be bothered with downloading rosters. logos, stadiums, facepacks and more to make their game complete. Especially when they can buy a competing product that inlcudes these. To be blunt, there isn't a competing product for OOTP at this point in time, given that there aren't any other text based baseball sims that provide historical career/replay mode at no extra cost. -I speaking of HH2001 - it has great arcade type action that sims pretty good to manage only that is also awesome since it has graphics and sound. I will still be playing HH3 along with OOTP4. HH3 is easier on the eyes for information. OOTP4 is very detailed which I love! _as for the windows complaint, IT IS! I found out on this site how to make it into a window so that I can play and use the computer while simming. Thanks. I am very much enjoying the game - I only wish that I had a more official MLB roster to feel like a real sim. Which "real sim" are you referring to? -Any baseball sim that uses real rosters. I have simmed about 20 years using HH3 and they have all been a blast! The only thing missing was the financial/GM part in OOTP4. HH does crash, what game does not. And you can get rosters and other dl's for HH as well. I was just referring to HH includes everything in the box, not OOTP4. And they both cost the same.

03-14-2002, 04:16 AM	#75
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002: <strong> -Any baseball sim that uses real rosters. I have simmed about 20 years using HH3 and they have all been a blast! The only thing missing was the financial/GM part in OOTP4. </strong><hr></blockquote> But, if OOTP4 was to be a "real sim" (by your def), then you'd have to drop the financial/GM part of OOTP4... would it really be worth it? __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

03-14-2002, 05:00 AM	#76
MetsRon2002 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 28	ChrisJ What I mean be "real sim" is using major league players and stats. Make believe players is OK, but the major leagues is what I want to simulate. I know the stats are there, but it would be to much work to change the names of up to 700+ players. That is why I use the Rolen rosters. What I like about HH is that putting a player in a certain batting order in the lineup produces different results. Such as the 4 hitter hits for better power than if he was in the 8th slot. Try this in HH and you will see that batting orders make a difference. I have simmed over 40 years in HH 2001, all had good accuracy and I have enjoyed the game thoroughly. But, I always wanted the financial part like OOTP4. Hard choice to make. For now I will play both until one pulls me to it more than the other.

03-14-2002, 05:22 AM	#77
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	[quote] <strong> What I mean be "real sim" is using major league players and stats. Make believe players is OK, but the major leagues is what I want to simulate. I know the stats are there, but it would be to much work to change the names of up to 700+ players. </strong><hr></blockquote> I know... my comment was based on the fact that if you want financials/free agents/etc, then you might have to settle for downloading your rosters, because to have 'real rosters' come with the game, you'd have to give that up. [quote] <strong> What I like about HH is that putting a player in a certain batting order in the lineup produces different results. Such as the 4 hitter hits for better power than if he was in the 8th slot. Try this in HH and you will see that batting orders make a difference. </strong><hr></blockquote> Huh!? Are you saying that if you put a player in the 4th slot, he will hit more home runs than if he is in the 8th spot? If so, that is a HUGE bug. A player should hit the same number of home runs no matter where he hits in the lineup - his RBIs or runs scored might be different - but HRs would be the same. You'll see the same thing in OOTP. Batting orders make a difference in baseball. [quote] <strong> I have simmed over 40 years in HH 2001, all had good accuracy and I have enjoyed the game thoroughly. But, I always wanted the financial part like OOTP4. Hard choice to make. For now I will play both until one pulls me to it more than the other.</strong><hr></blockquote> Same here... (although I love OOTP4 more for being more in depth). __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

03-14-2002, 05:32 AM	#78
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,209	[quote]Originally posted by MetsRon2002: <strong> That is why I use the Rolen rosters. What I like about HH is that putting a player in a certain batting order in the lineup produces different results. Such as the 4 hitter hits for better power than if he was in the 8th slot. Try this in HH and you will see that batting orders make a difference. </strong><hr></blockquote> Does this really happen in HH? I can't believe that is true, does this mean that if Barry Bonds hit in the 8th spot in the order he'd hit fewer home runs (well probably, since he'd be walked each time). What about the players ability changes just because one manager puts the player in a certain spot of the order? On the other hand I think I've figured out what to do to make Edgar Martinez a base stealing threat, I just have to hit him lead off, and if I want Ichiro to hit for more power I just have to bat him clean up, and since I don't really like Juan Gonzalez, I'll hit him 8th and watch his numbers suffer makes sense to me. I really hope that, that doesn't really happen in HH... obviously its not realistic for someone's characteristics to change if they hit in a different spot of the order.

03-14-2002, 05:41 AM	#79
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	MetsRon2002, I've been following this thread for awhile and have to admit I'm a bit confused on some of your points... let me clarify. First of all, almost all of the issue you bring up are possible in OOTP... lineups, minors development, things like spring training, stadiums, logos, financials - everything except animation. Being a past HH gamer, I will agree that there's some screens in HH I like better - but overall I can do all those things in OOTP and more... it's just that some are done differently. Two major points... (ONE) Once a game gives in to MLB licensing, the developer is severely restricted on what he can and can't do (for example, can't use money - must use points) and the price has to go up so the MLBPA gets their cut. With OOTP, The availability of the Lehman database allows real players and costs nothing other than the time and effort to download. I'm perfectly willing to do that to be able to use real money in my financials instead of points. It's also important to realize that the Lehman database is not "owned" by Markus & Co. so there is no control over it as far as accuracy, etc. It is the people on this board such as Rolen that offer their time to improve that part of the game. (TWO) Don't lose site of the fact that OOTP, although it can be used with real players, was designed with a different goal in mind. It was designed to give the player the truest sense possible of running a ballclub. In that sense, it HAS TO, by definition, NOT attempt to replay stats that have already been recorded. Diamond Mind and others are their for that purpose. OOTP uses the Lehman database to obtain stats, convert them to ratings and talent levels, then add enough randomness to the equation to allow anything to happen - thus giving you, the player, the reality of dealing with the unexpected. Barry Bonds will likely perform like Barry Bonds - but he will not duplicate his stats to the accuracy a game like Diamond Mind might. Any MLB player may take on a totally different path of success - thus the excitement of OOTP. In the world of fictional players, this becomes even more exciting becasue "Randy Holloway" is a "non entity" meaning I don't know him from Adam other than my scout says he's the next Roger Clemens... only time will tell and that's the beauty of OOTP. What most of this HH versus OOTP versus DMB issue comes down to is what you, as an individual expect from the game. Each game has (and should have) a different audience. I love OOTP because of the fictional aspect - you may love HH because of the animations - and someone else may love DMB becasue Barry will be within 5% of his actual 2001 statistics. All different goals... Well, I've droned on enough - hell, I could have made this an article !! LOL Just keep in mind we all have different wants and the choice of games provides the most to the most people

03-14-2002, 08:29 AM	#80
bkurtz Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 161	[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib: <strong> I can't believe that is true, does this mean that if Barry Bonds hit in the 8th spot in the order he'd hit fewer home runs (well probably, since he'd be walked each time.</strong><hr></blockquote> he would have less at bats anyway, i don't own hh but, like henry, i don't quite understand either.