the split of pitches. why?

[coolfish2]

as we knew the fact of split is
FB 1.225
SINKER 1.450
CUTTER 1.100
CURVE 1.000
SLIDER 1.550
CHANGEUP 1.050
SPLITTER 1.100
FORKBALL 1.150
C.CHANGEUP 1.050
SCREWBALL 0.925
Kn.CURVE 1.350
KNUCKLEBALL 1.100
----
I can't agree with CC and Sinker so i wanna ask here
maybe sinker includes Two-seam FB tho, but they all have opposite movement.
Even in real, they are one of a solution to take down opposite-hand batter.

Sidearm or submariners learn sinker for opposite batter.
Why do they have more split?

[kq76]

That's a good question. Where did you get that data from? I've never seen it.

When it comes to arm slots, I believe the thinking is that as a batter it's more difficult to "pick up" pitches that are coming from behind you or even below you. For example, if you're a RHB facing a RHP, if the pitcher is pitching using an over the top arm angle it's not going to be as difficult to pick up the release and path of the ball as it would be if you were facing a RH submariner like say Adam Cimber. And therefore you'll likely have worse splits against someone like Adam Cimber than you would a LHP or even a RHP with an over the top arm slot. You can actually roughly tell how strong a pitcher's splits in OOTP are probably going to be based off their arm slot alone.

But to answer your questions about Changeups or Sinkers. Yes, Sinkers and 2-Seamers are often used interchangeably, as they are in OOTP, even though maybe they shouldn't be. And yes, both tend to have arm-side movement, but so does the 4-Seamer and Splitter. I don't think they all have wide splits however. This article explains how, while RHP's Sinkers and Changeups are similarly effective against RHBs, their Changeups to LHBs are far more effective than their Sinkers. So Sinkers have far wider splits than Changeups.

This is another good article on splits. As is this one.

[coolfish2]

They are from Korean OOTP community. not in this forum

and I'm sorry that I can't understand clearly your answer because I'm not good at reading English.

My question was - why sinker and Circle Changeup are weak to opposite hand batter.
> because they have the value over than 1.0. this mean - more better sinker makes difficult fighting against LHB if you are RHB
>> in my oppinion, these value should be less than 1.0 like screw's 0.925 because they makes pitcher easy from opposite batter so splits should be narrow

your answer was - lower arm slot makes wider split
> I Agree

- Sinker have to get wider split than CC
> I misunderstand your answer maybe? But if RHP have good Sinker and CC, it just make him difficult fighting against LHP.

or are you saying they are better against same side batter?
I checked URL you gave to me But translator doesn't work so need some time to figure out. :/

[kq76]

I'm sorry for the translation difficulty. I don't have time this morning to fully look into the numbers, but I think I see what they're doing in the images in that link (thank you for sharing that) and I'll try to replicate and make more sense of them later.

I didn't want to fully comment on the #s earlier because I wasn't sure where they were coming from, but now I do. I'm still learning about pitches myself so I'm not an expert on this, but from the little I do know I'm not sure those numbers are out of line from what we'd expect. I think maybe the issue is you're expecting the 0 point to be more to the right where the positive numbers are, whereas I don't. It's too bad you can't read that Fangraphs article because I think it explains it better than I currently can. I'll take a stab at it though.

Split #s aren't so much about "pitch type X is more effective against same handed (as pitchers) batters than pitch type Y", they're more about "pitch type X is more effective against same handed batters than it is against opposite handed batters". For example, the article shows that Sinkers and Changeups from RHPs are both pretty equally effective against RHBs (.693 OPS vs .694 OPS). And while Changeups are more effective against RHBs than LHBs (.694 vs .713), that's not that big of a difference, really, like your 1.05 # above. The big difference comes with Sinkers. Sinkers vs RHBs are far more effective than they are against LHBs (.693 vs .767), like your 1.45 # above. You need to be comparing a pitch vs itself, but against the other handedness; don't compare 2 different pitch types against each other.

Or at least that's how I understand it. Hopefully someone who understands this better than I do can chime in for you.

[kq76]

Oh, and I forgot to explain the most interesting point of that article. While Sinkers may have bigger splits, it's actually the Changeup that pitchers should learn before the Sinker because, while they're both fairly equally effective against RHBs, the Changeup is also quite effective against LHBs too whereas the Sinker is not. That also goes to explaining why wide split #s aren't necessarily a good thing. They could be, like if Sinkers were far more effective against RHBs than Changeups are, but they're not.

[coolfish2]

I love you.
I understood well than before. I think I need to change my thought.
I still cannot understand completely tho, but I got what you want to say to me.

Originally Posted by kq76

Split #s aren't so much about "pitch type X is more effective against same handed (as pitchers) batters than pitch type Y", they're more about "pitch type X is more effective against same handed batters than it is against opposite handed batters".

This is what I was confused and It's solved!!
huge thanks