GB/FB Tendency Question

[eygabma]

I've been told repeatedly by a lot of the PT stats guys that GB/FB tendency doesn't have any impact in PT at all. Can anyone confirm/deny this? Is this also true for franchise mode then or does PT and franchise use the ratings differently?

GOOD POINT - TO CLARIFY - My understanding is that it doesn't impact HRs at all. It impacts where/how the balls are hit, but HRs, are NOT impacted. I'm looking for confirm that.

Just trying to get things squared away here. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by eygabma

GB/FB tendency doesn't have any impact in PT at all.

Well, it doesn't impact homeruns. That's covered by the HR rating. It DOES impact how often you get groundballs testing your infield defense versus flyballs testing your outfield defense.

That's my understanding.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by eygabma

I've been told repeatedly by a lot of the PT stats guys that GB/FB tendency doesn't have any impact in PT at all. Can anyone confirm/deny this? Is this also true for franchise mode then or does PT and franchise use the ratings differently?

GOOD POINT - TO CLARIFY - My understanding is that it doesn't impact HRs at all. It impacts where/how the balls are hit, but HRs, are NOT impacted. I'm looking for confirm that.

Just trying to get things squared away here. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

See my post in that other thread of yours for more detail, but I'm quite certain (like 99% certain) that's not true. GB% does impact HRs. The manual, which I don't think is out of date on this detail, even says:

Movement
Movement is a measure of the movement on a pitcher's pitches. It is harder for batters to make good contact with pitches that have good movement. As a result, pitchers with high Movement ratings tend to give up fewer home runs. Movement is calculated based on factors including ground ball %.

Bold by me.

http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...tching_ratings

Maybe you misunderstood what they said. Maybe they meant that you don't need to bother with GB% because Movement already factors it in. Or maybe I'm the one who is mistaken, but I doubt it.

[eygabma]

It's all clear as mud - thanks guys. Seriously, I appreciate the feedback. It truly is most appreciated. The deeper I dig the further down the rabbit hole I fall. Thanks for the info.

[shakturi101]

Originally Posted by kq76

See my post in that other thread of yours for more detail, but I'm quite certain (like 99% certain) that's not true. GB% does impact HRs. The manual, which I don't think is out of date on this detail, even says:



Bold by me.

http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...tching_ratings

Maybe you misunderstood what they said. Maybe they meant that you don't need to bother with GB% because Movement already factors it in. Or maybe I'm the one who is mistaken, but I doubt it.

have been wrestling with this question, but I think you explain it well enough, but just wanted to confirm. So, we would expect a flyball pitcher and a groundball pitchers with equivalent movement ratings to have similar HR rates, correct? The GB% is already applied in the movement rating shown on the profile page, so there is no need to double count it, per se. I do see a lot of people say stuff like "his movement is 70 and he's a groundball pitcher, so he'll give up barely any home runs," but I see now that statement doesn't really make sense.

I do want to ask one other question about movement, since it seems like you have done your research. Does the movement rating purely affect a pitcher's home run rate or does it also affect pitcher BABIP. The manual specifically states that "it is harder for batters to make good contact with pitches that have good movement," which would imply to me some sort of BABIP decreasing effect from movement, though the manual only specifically states HR's being decreased.

I appreciate the help!

[kq76]

Originally Posted by shakturi101

have been wrestling with this question, but I think you explain it well enough, but just wanted to confirm. So, we would expect a flyball pitcher and a groundball pitchers with equivalent movement ratings to have similar HR rates, correct? The GB% is already applied in the movement rating shown on the profile page, so there is no need to double count it, per se. I do see a lot of people say stuff like "his movement is 70 and he's a groundball pitcher, so he'll give up barely any home runs," but I see now that statement doesn't really make sense.

No, I would not say that necessarily. In regular OOTP you can't see the breakdown of the HR portion of the movement rating, nor the PBABIP portion. So while 2 pitchers could have the same overall movement rating, they could have different breakdowns. For example, they could both have say 60 overall movement, but one might have a 50 HR rating and a 70 PBABIP (I'm pulling these #s out of thin air, so don't expect them to be real examples) while another player could have a 70 HR rating and a 50 PBABIP rating.

I haven't done any detailed research on this and I'm not a dev so take it with a large grain of salt. I'm simply theorizing after having looked at the editor. I could very well be wrong.

I'd still expect a flyball pitcher to give up more home runs than a groundball pitcher, all else equal, but at the same time I definitely don't subscribe to the notion that groundball pitchers are necessarily better than flyball pitchers. There are circumstances where I'd prefer a flyball pitcher: a large ballpark, a poor infield defense, a good outfield defense, say I wanted to induce more Ks, more popups, etc. This is an interesting article on the topic.

I myself don't actually favour GB or FB pitchers. I simply want the guy I think is going to perform better overall. I like pitchers that are high in everything, but if I had to pick one of the 3 main ratings, I would pick higher Movement as I don't like giving up home runs or a high BABIP. Seeing my teams give up walks IRL infuriates me, yes, as I think it's something that should be simple not to do, but in OOTP it doesn't bother me so much as I know they probably won't kill me (especially if they're not walking in a run or followed up by a HR). And while Ks are cool and all, you can get outs in other ways. HRs and other hard hit balls, however, can and often do kill you.

Originally Posted by shakturi101

I do want to ask one other question about movement, since it seems like you have done your research. Does the movement rating purely affect a pitcher's home run rate or does it also affect pitcher BABIP. The manual specifically states that "it is harder for batters to make good contact with pitches that have good movement," which would imply to me some sort of BABIP decreasing effect from movement, though the manual only specifically states HR's being decreased.

Yes, I expect it effects PBABIP. Keep in mind that the manual is out of date in many places and this PBABIP stuff was only added in OOTP24 IINM so I wouldn't be surprised if it's not mentioned in the manual.

Note that while you can't see a pitcher's PBABIP in regular OOTP outside of the editor, if they're a real player then you can check out their real PBABIP at Fangraphs. And I'd say it'd be a pretty safe assumption that if the player has an especially good or bad PBABIP IRL then they may have something similar in OOTP. So if you see a player has a poor PBABIP and a high overall movement rating then his HR rating is probably especially good. And vice versa.

I did, however, just notice that the players who don't have a PBABIP rating don't all say they default to the same stat. .300 is often quoted as the usual average BABIP yet the defaults in the editor are all different. I guess it must depend on their other ratings.

Originally Posted by shakturi101

I appreciate the help!

You're welcome. But remember, I'm just theorizing. If you really want to form a strong opinion on all this, you should do your own testing.