all-new Pitcher BABIP mode & imported, fictional, or current games?

Sweed · 03-04-2023, 02:51 PM

In the podcast Matt mentions this is mostly for historical games, so how is it being used for current or fictional games? Will it be noticeable?

If we import our game will our pitchers be given a rating? Or maybe a default\neutral babip rating that won't "change" them?

Will new fictional pitchers being created for our drafts use the new babip? Will it allow the creation of outliers, like Mariano Rivera (chosen as Matt used him as an example in the podcast) while most pitchers will just be "normal"?

I imagine this rating would be hidden for a draft player, with only his amateur stats as a clue to his ability? The true ability to only be revealed by the pitcher's performance over time?

With what was said on the podcast all we can do is speculate. Hopefully Matt can make a quick comment on how\if this works in current or fictional leagues?

Thanks.

Matt Arnold · 03-04-2023, 04:37 PM

Generally speaking, in modern MLB and fictional games, this value will have little impact. Players will vary a little under the covers, but they'll tend to stay pretty clustered. In time, we'll probably use it selectively on newly created players to create some outlier players.

jcard · 03-04-2023, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Players will vary a little under the covers, but they'll tend to stay pretty clustered.

I’m not sure we need to have the players scouted THAT well…

Syd Thrift · 03-04-2023, 06:20 PM

I’ll be honest, I’d rather this stick with PT if at all. Just because we were misinformed as to the nature of how pitching works for about a hundred years doesn’t mean that we should have replays that bake in that misinformation (and those affected players are almost always one year wonders since it’s, you know, luck and all that). If there’s new data to suggest that some players are just better at BABIP that the game can’t implement by directly referencing BABIP (for instance, we know that one pitch pitchers like knuckleballers and Mariano Rivera seem to have a skill, and extreme power pitchers have a small skill too) then I’m all ears though,

Chimaera · 03-13-2023, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Generally speaking, in modern MLB and fictional games, this value will have little impact. Players will vary a little under the covers, but they'll tend to stay pretty clustered. In time, we'll probably use it selectively on newly created players to create some outlier players.

Matt, has the roster import/export process been updated to handle this new pitcher babip rating for those of us who like to use custom rosters?

OutS|der · 03-13-2023, 10:45 AM

What does this mean for this of us who haven't heard the podcast.

Bobfather · 03-13-2023, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

What does this mean for this of us who haven't heard the podcast.

Twitch stream tomorrow youtube on Thursday. Separate streams.

Matt Arnold · 03-13-2023, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

What does this mean for this of us who haven't heard the podcast.

It means you should listen to the podcast

KBLover · 03-13-2023, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

If there’s new data to suggest that some players are just better at BABIP that the game can’t implement by directly referencing BABIP (for instance, we know that one pitch pitchers like knuckleballers and Mariano Rivera seem to have a skill, and extreme power pitchers have a small skill too) then I’m all ears though,

I'm all for it.

I mean, why not have it? Just set it at .290 or whatever the average BABIP is for that league for most.

It would allow a pitcher to develop into one of those outliers. Perhaps based on their batted ball profile or certain pitch profiles.

I don't see the downside of it at all.

OutS|der · 03-15-2023, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It means you should listen to the podcast

Not able to listen. So I'll guess stick with 23 then.

Scipio Africanus · 03-15-2023, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

Not able to listen. So I'll guess stick with 23 then.

I'm a big fan of OOTP but I'm not a big fan of their marketing. They seem to expect their potential customers to do the work in discovering what's actually new each year. And Matt Arnold's flippant comment above isn't a good look.

Matt Arnold · 03-15-2023, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus

I'm a big fan of OOTP but I'm not a big fan of their marketing. They seem to expect their potential customers to do the work in discovering what's actually new each year. And Matt Arnold's flippant comment above isn't a good look.

We've given some details in other places. The thread asking about historical updates I mentioned it a little in there (https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...1&postcount=36). That whole thread discusses a lot about the babip model in historicals.

koohead · 03-15-2023, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus

I'm a big fan of OOTP but I'm not a big fan of their marketing. They seem to expect their potential customers to do the work in discovering what's actually new each year. And Matt Arnold's flippant comment above isn't a good look.

Sorry but I don't understand this feedback. Things are documented and shared in central locations because that is the only scalable solution. Expecting to any vendor to answer the same question multiple times does not make sense. There is a basic expectation that consumers such as ourselves read documentation and consume KB information that a vendor makes available to us. There is nothing wrong with saying "read the manual". Now, if I have read it and have questions or need clarification, then that is a legitimate question to the vendor that I would expect them to answer. Not consuming what they have worked hard to make available to you is lazy.

OutS|der · 03-16-2023, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koohead

Sorry but I don't understand this feedback. Things are documented and shared in central locations because that is the only scalable solution. Expecting to any vendor to answer the same question multiple times does not make sense. There is a basic expectation that consumers such as ourselves read documentation and consume KB information that a vendor makes available to us. There is nothing wrong with saying "read the manual". Now, if I have read it and have questions or need clarification, then that is a legitimate question to the vendor that I would expect them to answer. Not consuming what they have worked hard to make available to you is lazy.

Please show me where there is documentation I can read and I'll happily read it. If helps if you read my complaint which was asking for info since I can't listen to the podcast. Marketing that FORCES mes to watch or listen to a podcast isn't for me and won't reach me. If that's the only way they want to share info, then they are more to welcome to do so. I'll tune out.

I'm eager to read all about the new features and updates but it seems I can't do that and asking for a recap is dismissed. So if they don't want to share then so be it.

Syd Thrift · 03-16-2023, 11:03 AM

lmao nobody is forcing you to watch anything and Matt is a developer, not their marketing agent.

OutS|der · 03-16-2023, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

lmao nobody is forcing you to watch anything and Matt is a developer, not their marketing agent.

There where can I find the info without listening or watching something?

Syd Thrift · 03-16-2023, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

There where can I find the info without listening or watching something?

...by watching the podcast? Alternatively, by waiting for the game to be released and people to talk about their own experiences?

Nobody is also forcing you to be informed about these aspects of the game either. The info pre-release does tend to come out in dribs and drabs and sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do like listen to a podcast or watch a trailer to get some idea beforehand. But, speaking as a developer here, complaining that a developer isn't acting more like a marketing agent isn't really going to help TBH. I can't speak for Matt but it's attitudes like this that make me not want to deal directly with clients (cue the MY ATTITUDE WHAT DO YOU MEEEEEEAN MY ATTITUDE I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER AND THIS IS A BUSINESS GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR response)(what can I say, I worked in retail before I did software development).

Bobfather · 03-16-2023, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

There where can I find the info without listening or watching something?

https://clt307341.bmeurl.co/EFBD5D3

OutS|der · 03-17-2023, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobfather

https://clt307341.bmeurl.co/EFBD5D3

Wow so much info. These podcasts and twitch videos must only be 30 seconds long. Why didn't you say so? "An all-new pitcher BABIP model changes the game - and introduces new levels of strategy across the entire competitive platform, from League play to Tournaments and Perfect Drafts!"

Really provides all the info one could need.

Matt Arnold · 03-17-2023, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

Wow so much info. These podcasts and twitch videos must only be 30 seconds long. Why didn't you say so? "An all-new pitcher BABIP model changes the game - and introduces new levels of strategy across the entire competitive platform, from League play to Tournaments and Perfect Drafts!"

Really provides all the info one could need.

The twitch stream I was on was almost an hour and a half, although we didn't really talk much about the babip model. As mentioned, we have had multiple podcast episodes covering topics, and I linked to a thread above where I answered other questions on this specific topic too.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask, and we might be able to get around to answering. Just asking "what does this mean for me" is something I never could have answered, since I have no idea what type of player you are, what parts of the game you care most about, what your interests are, etc...

03-04-2023, 02:51 PM	#1
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 7,018	all-new Pitcher BABIP mode & imported, fictional, or current games? In the podcast Matt mentions this is mostly for historical games, so how is it being used for current or fictional games? Will it be noticeable? If we import our game will our pitchers be given a rating? Or maybe a default\neutral babip rating that won't "change" them? Will new fictional pitchers being created for our drafts use the new babip? Will it allow the creation of outliers, like Mariano Rivera (chosen as Matt used him as an example in the podcast) while most pitchers will just be "normal"? I imagine this rating would be hidden for a draft player, with only his amateur stats as a clue to his ability? The true ability to only be revealed by the pitcher's performance over time? With what was said on the podcast all we can do is speculate. Hopefully Matt can make a quick comment on how\if this works in current or fictional leagues? Thanks. Last edited by Sweed; 03-04-2023 at 02:53 PM.

03-04-2023, 04:37 PM	#2
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,218	Generally speaking, in modern MLB and fictional games, this value will have little impact. Players will vary a little under the covers, but they'll tend to stay pretty clustered. In time, we'll probably use it selectively on newly created players to create some outlier players.

03-13-2023, 10:45 AM	#6
OutS\|der Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 2,757 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	What does this mean for this of us who haven't heard the podcast.