No Japanese Baseball Updates

[Aceshigh24]

Well I'm glad I stopped playing for a bit and never updated to remove them.

[clamel]

Originally Posted by ehalt

Thanks. And I have similarly low hopes.

I understand and feel just like you. But as I was told earlier this is a subject to stay clear off or risk being banned.
Indeed an infected case and a result of business people taking over 100% from a bloke who created this game from the love of the game.

Be sure more leagues from Asia will follow with contracts and demands not be included unless payed massively.

World of Baseball should be able to include most of the big leagues with teams and players or it will not be World of Baseball.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by Aceshigh24

Well I'm glad I stopped playing for a bit and never updated to remove them.

Yes, I stopped playing OOTP23 entirely once the patch/bug came out and had to abandon my save there. Thankfully, I'd been too lazy to import the save I've spent the most hours playing to the latest version, so that's still safe for now. Since new versions of OOTP are mostly just roster updates outside of a few minor features (which I don't mean as an insult — a roster update is all I'm ever looking for, since the game has been in excellent shape for years until the latest fiasco), there's no reason for me to upgrade to a version which is incompatible with my primary save.

[darthstupidious]

Originally Posted by ehalt

You do not in fact "know" this, unless you've seen their finances. You suspect it. And that's fine. It's a reasonable suspicion, even if I happen to disagree with it. But let's not pretend to know things that we don't.

Except... you keep asserting that OOTP should simply 'just open up the checkbook' and pay for the ***. For all we know, the rights to the *** are no longer for sale, and their deal with Konami previously allowed for exceptions for PC-only games and that has now changed. Seeing how Football Manager, a much larger game with international appeal, was unable to get the rights to the Japanese league, I think it's a fair assumption that they're turning the screws here. There are so many variables here that we don't know, yet you keep trying to ascribe maliciousness to something that might not be that way.

I've been a longtime OOTP player and I'll continue to support them again this year. The game scratches an itch that no other has been able to get even close to, and continues to improve each year. While it sucks that the *** won't be included, I don't see why you OP feel the need to keep beating this proverbial dead horse... as you're doing so repeatedly on the forums and over on Reddit.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by darthstupidious

I've been a longtime OOTP player and I'll continue to support them again this year. The game scratches an itch that no other has been able to get even close to, and continues to improve each year. While it sucks that the *** won't be included, I don't see why you OP feel the need to keep beating this proverbial dead horse... as you're doing so repeatedly on the forums and over on Reddit.

It isn't a "dead horse" just because you personally don't care about it. I'm going to continue to raise an issue that affects me in the appropriate channels to raise that issue, such as the official forums and the subreddit. If the issue doesn't interest you, you are more than welcome to read other threads which interest you more. Nobody is forcing you to be here.

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by ehalt

It isn't a "dead horse" just because you personally don't care about it. I'm going to continue to raise an issue that affects me in the appropriate channels to raise that issue, such as the official forums and the subreddit. If the issue doesn't interest you, you are more than welcome to read other threads which interest you more. Nobody is forcing you to be here.

This is coming from someone who very much cares about that league, I'll say it. You're beating a dead horse. Those in charge have obviously been told by someone's lawyers not
to discuss this. Because besides the very basic announcement of the situation with the league in question, there has been no comment at all from anyone official. There is no reason to believe that's going to change. Also, as has been mentioned already, when Konami has exclusive rights to video game rights to that league, why would they relinquish those rights? That's just bad business

[MK_735]

Originally Posted by ehalt

You do not in fact "know" this, unless you've seen their finances. You suspect it. And that's fine. It's a reasonable suspicion, even if I happen to disagree with it. But let's not pretend to know things that we don't.

It also changes nothing about OOTP's culpability with regards to selling unlicensed data. It just pushes it back a few years to before Konami signed the exclusive deal. I don't think it's relevant to the topic of this thread, which is the fact that OOTP gave no indications for their plans regarding Japanese baseball for their new game. Those of us who care about Japanese baseball would like some answers before we decide whether to purchase. A relitigation of a contract none of us has seen isn't particularly helpful.

This is hypocritical. You say the other person doesn't "know" but yet it was you who said "It's always, 'chose not to spend the money to.'"

You don't know that. You don't know what the conversation has been like. Maybe you don't understand Japanese culture either and how they may feel. If they feel disrespected they may not negotiate at all.

But also it could be all about money. Cost-benefit analysis.

It's fair to ask for answers and honestly the team should give one if it's legally fine, again we don't know the specifics, but you are going about it wrong lol.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by ehalt

You do not in fact "know" this, unless you've seen their finances. You suspect it. And that's fine. It's a reasonable suspicion, even if I happen to disagree with it. But let's not pretend to know things that we don't.

It also changes nothing about OOTP's culpability with regards to selling unlicensed data. It just pushes it back a few years to before Konami signed the exclusive deal. I don't think it's relevant to the topic of this thread, which is the fact that OOTP gave no indications for their plans regarding Japanese baseball for their new game. Those of us who care about Japanese baseball would like some answers before we decide whether to purchase. A relitigation of a contract none of us has seen isn't particularly helpful.

It’s an extremely reasonable suspicion. Id put my knowledge of it about on par with the level of knowing that there is currently France.

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by BaseballGOAT

Those in charge have obviously been told by someone's lawyers not to discuss this ... There is no reason to believe that's going to change.

THIS!


An educated guess would tell you the JAV folks have no interest in re-negotiating Konami's exclusive contract unless it involves a lot more money. If OOTP/com2US thinks they might be able to compete in that scenario, I'm sure they will try - but broadcasting their intentions publicly is not only stupid, but likely illegal as well.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by BaseballGOAT

Those in charge have obviously been told by someone's lawyers not
to discuss this.

Has this been stated somewhere, or is it just speculation? And what would it change? If they messed up so badly that they're not even legally allowed to discuss it, that's hardly a point in their favor.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by MK_735

This is hypocritical. You say the other person doesn't "know" but yet it was you who said "It's always, 'chose not to spend the money to.'"

I figured someone would respond with this. It's a fair critique, but it's pretty different for someone to say they know the details of a contract they've never seen than it is for someone to say that they know, generally, how business works. I am very happy to stand behind my assertion that business works by money changing hands, and that most things in the world of business can be altered by increasing the amount of money which changes hands. That's pretty uncontroversial, isn't it?

[HRBaker]

Let's put things in perspective, shall we?


* com2US has about 400 employees and an annual revenue of $500 Million. (Public information)

* Konami has about 17,000 employees and an annual revenue of $2.4 Billion. (Public information)


Now try and convince me OOTP/com2US has a chance to renegotiate that exclusive agreement.

[Syd Thrift]

no that’s SPECULATION how do you truly know that they aren’t owned by Alphabet???

[ashantewarrier]

Can we move on? If you don't like that <redacted leagues> will not be part of the next release, then just don't purchase the game. It's as simple as that.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

* com2US has about 400 employees and an annual revenue of $500 Million. (Public information)

Wow, so they bring in half a billion per year and still decided to bug customers' save files rather than loosen the checkbook? That's way worse than I thought.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

Can we move on? If you don't like that <redacted leagues> will not be part of the next release, then just don't purchase the game. It's as simple as that.

You are in fact more than welcome to move on. Nobody forced you to read this thread, and nobody forced you to comment.

[KRSW]

Sorry for my poor English. I am Japanese.
As far as I know, the exclusive contract between *** and KONAMI has expired twenty years ago.

https://amd-ryzen.hatenadiary.jp/ent...1/06/13/171906
https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/doc...827/konami.htm
https://nlab.itmedia.co.jp/games/gsn...22/news10.html
https://dengekionline.com/data/news/...e914e6fb9.html

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by KRSW

Sorry for my poor English. I am Japanese.
As far as I know, the exclusive contract between *** and KONAMI has expired twenty years ago.

Very interesting. Seems like the idea that OOTP simply had no choice but to corrupt our saves may have been nothing but blind speculation after all.

[MK_735]

Originally Posted by ehalt

I figured someone would respond with this. It's a fair critique, but it's pretty different for someone to say they know the details of a contract they've never seen than it is for someone to say that they know, generally, how business works. I am very happy to stand behind my assertion that business works by money changing hands, and that most things in the world of business can be altered by increasing the amount of money which changes hands. That's pretty uncontroversial, isn't it?

I don't disagree to suggest that money usually talks. But this is situation where only money from one party mattered, Konami. Konami is very serious about their Baseball games and could've gone for an exclusivity agreement.

Also, cultural issues could've played a roll as well. When dealing with Japanese people culture is always important.

[HRBaker]

This is obviously going nowhere. Trying to talk sense to someone that has no intention of trying to understand is too much like current day politics. I would suggest we just let this guy rant until the moderators are forced to do something about it.