2022-23 NFL Season Discussion Thread

[Cobra Mgr]

I lol'd.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I think he’s totally different than both tbh. Mahomes is an elite level player who immediately makes his team a perennial Super Bowl contender. Cousins is an accurate passer who doesn’t really do a lot of deep stuff but mostly plays within himself. Dak has more skills than Cousins and would be considered better but he has a penchant for trying a little too hard and making mistakes. That’s a gross over generalization but then, so is “ Dak is more like Cousins than Mahomes”. I think that skills wise he’s probably closer to Mahomes but penchant for dumb mistakes wise he’s not close to either.

I think he was just simplifying it. A Mustang is closer to a Camaro than it is a Bentley. Regardless of what we think about Cousins and Dak, they are a country mile apart from Mahomes or Burrow. They're in the mix with Carr, Jackson, Jones, Garoppolo, and the like. In most cases those QBs won't be able to overcome a better team.

[Hageneezz]

NOTHING stands between the Niners and the Vince Lombardi Trophy, NOTHING!

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Hageneezz

NOTHING stands between the Niners and the Vince Lombardi Trophy, NOTHING!

If Purdy gets them past the Eagles, I'd say there is a movie deal waiting for him, no matter what happens in the Super Bowl. If they win it all, no brainer. If they lose, then the screenwriter will have to come up with some bittersweet but inspiring ending.

[monkeyman576]

Hackett going from Broncos HC to Jets OC. That's quite the fall. Couldn't he have gotten a college HC job somewhere?

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

Hackett going from Broncos HC to Jets OC. That's quite the fall. Couldn't he have gotten a college HC job somewhere?

I thought the goal for the Jests was to improve the offense?

[Cobra Mgr]

This is an example of many reasons why I dropped the Panthers. I can't w/Tepper.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I thought the goal for the Jests was to improve the offense?

I have this feeling that he’ll wind up being not so bad. Also, given that the Jets are pursuing Rodgers this is about as unsurprising as anything given that Hackett was hired by Denver for the exact same reason.

[thehef]

IMO, Reich fits the profile of a coach who may have gotten axed to quickly and deserves another chance. I mean, many people think Brian Flores shouldn't have been fired.

Look at their records side by side... Certainly not apples to apples, but Flores took a 7-9 team and went 5-11 (albeit the 5 wins were about 4 more than what the owners hoped for), whereas Reich took a 4-12 team and went 10-6 with a playoff win. Flores then had a poor finish to his second season and - with semi-high expectations - had a brutal start to his third & final season, missing the playoffs each year... Reich, OTOH, after his very solid debut season, was able to lead his team to a 7-9 record despite losing his starting QB, Andrew Luck, to unexpected and untimely retirement (and being stuck with career backup Jacoby Brissett). Then he rebounded with a solid 11-5 record & playoff appearance in his 3rd year. In his 4th year he was again saddled with a dud QB (Carson Wendt), so a 9-8 record wasn't that bad... A slow start in 2022, along with another re-tread QB (Matt Ryan), but the team still performed significantly better under Reich than it did under his successor...

I'm not saying Reich is the next sure thing and Carolina fans should be thinking Super Bowl in 12 months, but I think it's way too soon to consider him a retread on the coaching carousel...

[Cobra Mgr]

Frank Reich starting QB's: Andrew Luck, Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Jacoby Brissett, Carson Wentz.

In the pitiful AFC South, the Colts couldn't make the playoffs because they couldn't beat the Jags, the biggest dumpster fire in the NFL last year. Then got fired cause it was obvious they weren't going to win an even worse division this year.

Steve Wilks starting QB's: Josh Rosen, Sam Bradford, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold & PJ Walker. Got only one season in an obvious rebuild season @ Arizona w/the 2 earlier QBs. Nearly took the worst team in the NFL's worst division to the playoffs after they dumped their opening day HC, starting QB, best offensive player & #2 WR. Missing it only because of a celebratory helmet toss & a PK who missed to chip shot kicks.

I already knew Wilks was unlikely to get the job. Tepper wanted an offensive coach? OK, his right. But to get a recent retread who struggled @ best in a division that got to play the Jags & Texans 4 times a year despite having numerous previously successful veteran QB's to run his offense?

[thehef]

Well, it's not just about QB's, but ya... So:

2018: Reich's first year, he turns around a 4-12 team (that, granted, was likely 4-12 because Brissett was the QB, not Luck) gets 11 wins, and wins a playoff game. In most cities, that's going to be successful 1st year as head coach.
2019: 2nd year, Luck retires TWO WEEKS before the start of the season (meaning there's no opportunity to acquire a decent starter), saddling Reich with Brissett. A 7-9 record with Brissett as your QB is not bad, IMO, given that Brissett is simply no better than average-for-a-backup... It doesn't tell the whole picture, but Brissett's career record as a starter is better with Reich (7-8) than it is under anyone else (7-15).
2020: 3rd year, he gets a proven NFL QB who's on his last legs (Rivers), and goes 11-5, making the playoffs. Nice rebound from the "no Luck" year.
2021: 4th year, he gets stuck with Carson Wentz, who most would agree is definitely a downgrade from even Old Man Rivers, and perhaps a slight upgrade from Brissett; goes 9-8. I'd say 9-8 with Wentz is pretty successful.
2022: 5th year, before getting the axe, he's stuck with a past-his-prime & pretty brutal Matt Ryan. Goes 3-5-1 on a team that goes 1-7 after his firing...

I'm not at all arguing against Steve Wilks. I'm just saying that I don't think Reich is a re-tread and that, rather, his record when taken in context with some the talent (mainly QB-related) challenges, is decent, and that he's earned another chance.

BTW, the Jags were decent team this year, going 9-8 and making the playoffs after a dismal 2021, closing the season strong, winning a playoff game, and giving the Chiefs all they could handle in the division around. Splitting with them during the regular season - as Reich did before he was let go - is no shame.

[thehef]

BTW, with first Jacksonville and then Dallas getting bounced from the playoffs, we can safely say that, still, no Super Bowl winning coach has ever gone to another team and won a Super Bowl...

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by thehef

BTW, with first Jacksonville and then Dallas getting bounced from the playoffs, we can safely say that, still, no Super Bowl winning coach has ever gone to another team and won a Super Bowl...

It's weird that it hasn't happened yet. Considering all of the coaches that have taken two different teams to the Super Bowl.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by thehef

Well, it's not just about QB's, but ya... So:

2019: Reich's first year, he turns around a 4-12 team (that, granted, was likely 4-12 because Brissett was the QB, not Luck) gets 11 wins, and wins a playoff game. In most cities, that's going to be successful 1st year as head coach.
2020: 2nd year, Luck retires TWO WEEKS before the start of the season (meaning there's no opportunity to acquire a decent starter), saddling Reich with Brissett. A 7-9 record with Brissett as your QB is not bad, IMO, given that Brissett is simply no better than average-for-a-backup... It doesn't tell the whole picture, but Brissett's career record as a starter is better with Reich (7-8) than it is under anyone else (7-15).
2021: 3rd year, he gets a proven NFL QB who's on his last legs (Rivers), and goes 11-5, making the playoffs. Nice rebound from the "no Luck" year.
2022: 4th year, he gets stuck with Carson Wentz, who most would agree is definitely a downgrade from even Old Man Rivers, and perhaps a slight upgrade from Brissett; goes 9-8. I'd say 9-8 with Wentz is pretty successful.
2023: 5th year, before getting the axe, he's stuck with a past-his-prime & pretty brutal Matt Ryan. Goes 3-5-1 on a team that goes 1-7 after his firing...

I'm not at all arguing against Steve Wilks. I'm just saying that I don't think Reich is a re-tread and that, rather, his record when taken in context with some the talent (mainly QB-related) challenges, is decent, and that he's earned another chance.

BTW, the Jags were decent team this year, going 9-8 and making the playoffs after a dismal 2021, closing the season strong, winning a playoff game, and giving the Chiefs all they could handle in the division around. Splitting with them during the regular season - as Reich did before he was let go - is no shame.

Your years are one off. It was confusing me......

......His 3rd & 4th year he had 2 of the worst teams in his division. That was (should) have been 4 automatic W's for a decent coach.

....He wasn't "stuck" w/Wentz. He wanted him.

.....He wasn't stuck w/Ryan. He wanted him.

And now here is the kicker.........If Tepper wants an offensive guru to guide a potential new 1st round QB, what in his above track record would suggest he has the ability to get the most out of a player in that position? He didn't get the best out of Brisette. He didn't get the best out of Wentz. He didn't get the best out of Ryan. And w/Rivers & Luck, they had one season w/him and were done. Two QB's who were still effective and decided to walk away. Think about it...............

I resigned myself to the fact Tepper was going away from Wilks a long time ago. But for this??????? You mean to tell me there was no better offensive mind available and willing to take this job?

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Your years are one off. It was confusing me......

......His 3rd & 4th year he had 2 of the worst teams in his division. That was (should) have been 4 automatic W's for a decent coach.

....He wasn't "stuck" w/Wentz. He wanted him.

.....He wasn't stuck w/Ryan. He wanted him.

And now here is the kicker.........If Tepper wants an offensive guru to guide a potential new 1st round QB, what in his above track record would suggest he has the ability to get the most out of a player in that position? He didn't get the best out of Brisette. He didn't get the best out of Wentz. He didn't get the best out of Ryan. And w/Rivers & Luck, they had one season w/him and were done. Two QB's who were still effective and decided to walk away. Think about it...............

I resigned myself to the fact Tepper was going away from Wilks a long time ago. But for this??????? You mean to tell me there was no better offensive mind available and willing to take this job?

Ya, I'll give you that - that Reich wanted to those guys. Which speaks more to his failures as a potential GM than it does a coach...

Brisette's starter year with Reich - one of his three years as a mostly fulltime QB - was his best year and the only one of the three years where he almost a had a winning record (7-8)... In reality, Wentz has only had one good year (his 2nd year). Since then, he's pretty much sucked wherever he's gone and if any coach in the future gets "the best" out of him, it's unlikely to be much different than getting "the worst" out of him...

There's no evidence that I'm aware of that Luck & Rivers retired due to their experience with Reich. I mean I was sure that Luck - retiring in his prime and one of the best in game - would come back after a year or two off. But nope. And Rivers was 39 years old and at last count has several dozen children. So I find it hard to take those two retirements at anything other than face value... And Ryan has been on a downward arc since his Super Bowl season. Nobody's getting the best out of him without a time machine...

Again, I won't argue Wilks vs Reich. I'm just saying that Reich's HC record is relatively brief, and has enough success & context to deserve another chance, and to not yet be labeled a retread. YMMV, and in this case I'm sure it does

Sorry for mixing up the years. Will fix that!

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by thehef

Again, I won't argue Wilks vs Reich. I'm just saying that Reich's HC record is relatively brief, and has enough success & context to deserve another chance, and to not yet be labeled a retread. YMMV, and in this case I'm sure it does

And I'm just saying "Why give someone a 2nd chance when you haven't given others the 1st chance?" How many 2nd chances must POC wait out, until they can get their first legitimate shot?

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

It's weird that it hasn't happened yet. Considering all of the coaches that have taken two different teams to the Super Bowl.

That's why the Super Bowl is a hard thing.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

If Purdy gets them past the Eagles, I'd say there is a movie deal waiting for him, no matter what happens in the Super Bowl. If they win it all, no brainer. If they lose, then the screenwriter will have to come up with some bittersweet but inspiring ending.

If the 49ers get to the SB, win or lose, what do they do with their QB situation?

It would be cool to see a 3rd meeting between the 49ers and Bengals in the SB. I think that's only happened once before.

[Cobra Mgr]

I think Pitt v Dal, Buf v Dal, NYG v NE & SF v Cincy are the only repeat SB's.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I think Pitt v Dal, Buf v Dal, NYG v NE & SF v Cincy are the only repeat SB's.

There've actually been more rematches than I realized. In addition to the ones you mentioned:

Patriots vs Eagles
Redskins vs Dolphins
Patriots vs Rams (once as StL Rams & once as LA Rams)
... and Steelers & Cowboys had two rematches. I had forgotten about that...