Very disappointing decision 2.0

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by RaUni

They damaged our product after they sold it to us. They have not said anything since.

That is what has happened. So yeah. Worst light possible is what they did. I loved this game, just like everyone else. I know you're really worried about Markus. He's probably ok, you'll hear from him again. People stay silent when they're guilty....people stay silent when they're innocent...Until then,

They damaged our product after they sold it to us. They have not said anything since.

lmao that isn’t at all what you’ve been saying though. You’ve been repeatedly implying that they did it on their own, which from the limited information we’ve received is extremely not the case. You’ve even gone so far as to deny that there have been any threats of lawsuits, which itself implies that OOTPD did this out of a mercurial sense of spite. Pretend otherwise all you want, but neither one of us are “unbiased”. I personally do not pretend to be.

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

lmao that isn’t at all what you’ve been saying though. You’ve been repeatedly implying that they did it on their own, which from the limited information we’ve received is extremely not the case. You’ve even gone so far as to deny that there have been any threats of lawsuits, which itself implies that OOTPD did this out of a mercurial sense of spite. Pretend otherwise all you want, but neither one of us are “unbiased”. I personally do not pretend to be.

"I need to share some sad news today. We recently had a talk with our parent company Com2uS about the [league redacted], and Com2uS asked us to remove all the data concerning this unlicensed league from OOTP. "

They were ASKED. They did it. They also did it in the most shady way possible. Was it spiteful, obviously not. Someone does something in a shady way, when comfronted with a possible lawsuit accoridng to you guys(which means they were doing something shady) and y'all so quick to assume there is no possible way it could have been done any differently? Lol. They went as so far to say it is a "random" scramble but it clearly isnt random. There hasn't been one ounce of information that has any truth to it so far.

[Syd Thrift]

At least now you’re out and out admitting that it wasn’t spiteful, in opposition to what you’d implied previously, lol

[RaUni]

I want to know why they did this the way they did it. Damaging peoples personal files with custom creations would not affect them as a business in a lawsuit, they pulled the league in question. They did something that was way overkill AFTER that, if anything it seems like a remove all evidence scenario but I'm not blasting that like its fact everywhere. I mainly state what they've done. They can come out with a statement that says they did it that way because there was no other way and they cant comment further due to pending litigation.....but they won't because they don't want to admit they did something wrong or are being accused of that.

[MathBandit]

I find it really funny how much everyone (or a vocal minority, at least) are willing to just fully stick their heads in the sand as far as it will go and pretend they were ever deceived or hoodwinked by OOTP, or that it comes as a huge shock that some of the leagues aren't licensed.

When OOTP got the KBO license they made a big deal out of it being new and exciting to have licensed content for a non-MLB league.

[RaUni]

If you're staying silent because you really can't talk about it legally, you can definitely say that to your customer base without making anything worse for your legal predicament. If you're staying silent because something could legally be used against you, that's a different ballgame. Big difference between cant and won't.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I find it really funny how much everyone (or a vocal minority, at least) are willing to just fully stick their heads in the sand as far as it will go and pretend they were ever deceived or hoodwinked by OOTP, or that it comes as a huge shock that some of the leagues aren't licensed.

I find it hard to believe that those couple people are even actually that outraged. It's at the point now, multiple days after the issue took place, that they're just posting their contradictions repeatedly to get under people's skin. It's the literal definition of flaming.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I find it really funny how much everyone (or a vocal minority, at least) are willing to just fully stick their heads in the sand as far as it will go and pretend they were ever deceived or hoodwinked by OOTP, or that it comes as a huge shock that some of the leagues aren't licensed.

When OOTP got the KBO license they made a big deal out of it being new and exciting to have licensed content for a non-MLB league.

It's odd to me that "they've been selling something they have no right to sell for years" is considered a defense.

[tm1681]

Does anyone who claims that this only happened because OOTP sold the game to OH NO THE KOREANS!!!! realize that this could just as easily have happened if OOTP Developments was still independent?

[DrSatan]

I guess I'm late to the party. I just discovered this change today, and came straight here to see what the deal is. I added a fictional Japanese league using real league/team names but fictional logos and players. That league was also moved to South Africa and all the player names changed to South African nationality. Was randomizing the league/team names and leaving the league in Japan not an option? At this point I'm just going to delete the league and all its players, but dang. Luckily I only had 10 seasons in, but I'd be heated if this was a long term league like many of you are experiencing.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by DrSatan

Was randomizing the league/team names and leaving the league in Japan not an option?

I'd say by OOTP's actions, it is safe to presume that it was not an option. The South African bit wasn't done until a subsequent patch after the first patch was apparently (and this is a presumption as well) deemed by the aggrieved party to be insufficient.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I'd say by OOTP's actions, it is safe to presume that it was not an option. The South African bit wasn't done until a subsequent patch after the first patch was apparently (and this is a presumption as well) deemed by the aggrieved party to be insufficient.

This is the most aggravating part. I would of been happy deleting the Nippon league and having all my players become FA but that wasn't good enough. No it had to randomize the players as well. Specially considering my players were fictional.

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by DrSatan

I guess I'm late to the party. I just discovered this change today, and came straight here to see what the deal is. I added a fictional Japanese league using real league/team names but fictional logos and players. That league was also moved to South Africa and all the player names changed to South African nationality. Was randomizing the league/team names and leaving the league in Japan not an option? At this point I'm just going to delete the league and all its players, but dang. Luckily I only had 10 seasons in, but I'd be heated if this was a long term league like many of you are experiencing.

This exactly. I wouldn't have cared if I had to change the team names/real player names. To move all of my teams to another nation completely blew my setup up. I don't see how they couldn't have just done that. Or even warned "hey if you have any team names/players/etc that fit these parameters they will get scrambled. Change them." Them just forcing it like that shows panic . They gotta be in trouble to abandon their customer base and make such a terrible decision.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by RaUni

This exactly. I wouldn't have cared if I had to change the team names/real player names. To move all of my teams to another nation completely blew my setup up. I don't see how they couldn't have just done that. Or even warned "hey if you have any team names/players/etc that fit these parameters they will get scrambled. Change them." Them just forcing it like that shows panic . They gotta be in trouble to abandon their customer base and make such a terrible decision.

The customer base is so abandoned that in my online league as well as the discord servers of every YT content creator I follow, a full 100% of the discourse is "OMG yall need to go look at the people freaking out on the forums, can you believe this?"

[coyotedelmar]

Originally Posted by DrSatan

I guess I'm late to the party. I just discovered this change today, and came straight here to see what the deal is. I added a fictional Japanese league using real league/team names but fictional logos and players. That league was also moved to South Africa and all the player names changed to South African nationality. Was randomizing the league/team names and leaving the league in Japan not an option? At this point I'm just going to delete the league and all its players, but dang. Luckily I only had 10 seasons in, but I'd be heated if this was a long term league like many of you are experiencing.

Was your save in the middle of the season? Just curious because I have an idea on why the players (fictional or not) scrambled but no great way to test.

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by coyotedelmar

Was your save in the middle of the season? Just curious because I have an idea on why the players (fictional or not) scrambled but no great way to test.

Mine was in the middle of a season. Teams from all over the world, Over 200 teams, thousands with minors. All scrambled. Even the MLB teams and players were scrambled. When originally set up, i had included all leagues at league setup. MLB, (redacted league), Mexican league, all independants were all deleted on the first league day.. This was purely a custom league. Custom region. Maybe 10 teams were kept from (redacted league) with more custom teams being in the Japan division than were brought over. There was no warning upon league opening, no pop ups upon game opening, like they do with their gambling part of the game. Hundreds of hours of game setup, region setup, draft region setup, logos, team names, player names.....NONE of it the same.

The team I control, the St. Louis Cardinals, its now the Mexico City Sunrays. So good thing we got that MLB license. The (redacted league) was imported upon original file creation, but no longer existed. A handful of teams, less than 5 percent of the league, caused them to scramble everything. The League (World Baseball Org.) had all MLB teams, all KBO teams, handful of ***, all Mexican teams, and about 150 custom teams that were created all from custom....Everything scrambled, not just the redacted league stuff. So please....someone tell me that this was handled ok and with thought, and there was no other option. That I should be fine with moving on from that to another league....that OOTPD wasn't just looking out for their own interests.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

The customer base is so abandoned that in my online league as well as the discord servers of every YT content creator I follow, a full 100% of the discourse is "OMG yall need to go look at the people freaking out on the forums, can you believe this?"

Enough is enough!
I've tried to just follow the threads and not get involved without giving serious consideration to the views of everyone who has taken the time to post.
But, MathBandit, I say with all due respect, give it a rest! At least for a little while.
No, I beg of you. Give it a rest, PLEASE!
You want to support the creators at every turn? Back to the wall? Never surrender? Die on this ridge?
Fine.
But really. Take a deep breath and read your post again.
Please.
And then tell me what value it adds.
"a full 100% of the discouse all agree" do they?
Well, I find that hard to believe. Anytime. Anywhere. Any discourse.
But I'm not surprised that in your discourse world they all agree with you.
Look, we know where you stand. I have known that some 1,000 threads ago.
Always on the side of the creators.
No matter the issue.
No problem.
But please add value or spare us all posts like this.
I beg you.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I like a lot of what you post (and have posted over the years), but I genuinely cannot possibly fathom thinking this has anything to do with Com2Us.

Really. Well, let me refresh your memory. In Markus' words....

We have been asked by Com2uS HQ to provide another patch related to the removal of real Japanese data, so here it is, version 23.10.110. For more info please see here.

Now can you fathom how this might have something to do with Com2Us?
Maybe. Just a little bit.
Seriously. I think you need to take a step back because your posts are becoming less and less rational/objective at every turn - not that they ever were.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

Enough is enough!
I've tried to just follow the threads and not get involved without giving serious consideration to the views of everyone who has taken the time to post.
But, MathBandit, I say with all due respect, give it a rest! At least for a little while.
No, I beg of you. Give it a rest, PLEASE!
You want to support the creators at every turn? Back to the wall? Never surrender? Die on this ridge?
Fine.
But really. Take a deep breath and read your post again.
Please.
And then tell me what value it adds.
"a full 100% of the discouse all agree" do they?
Well, I find that hard to believe. Anytime. Anywhere. Any discourse.
But I'm not surprised that in your discourse world they all agree with you.
Look, we know where you stand. I have known that some 1,000 threads ago.
Always on the side of the creators.
No matter the issue.
No problem.
But please add value or spare us all posts like this.
I beg you.

How come I have to give it a rest for saying what I have seen discussed, and not the people saying this is the end of OOTP, that the devs decided to do this on a whim because they felt like it, and that Com2Us bought OOTP with the explicit purpose of later bankrupting them so they could get possession of the IP for themselves with OOTP out of the picture?

I think it *is* valuable to point out that this forum is about as extreme of a vocal minority that it's possible to be, and that based on my experience in the official discord server, the subreddit, and in the smaller communities and online league discussions I am a part of, the response is about as far removed from this forum as it's possible to be. You can think that "my discourse world" (whatever the heck that even means) is different if you want, but the reality is that this forum is by far the exception to things when it comes to OOTP, not the norm.

If your impression of me is that I always blindly defend the game no matter what and never have a bad word to say then I guess you don't have a particularly good impression of me. I have plenty of criticism for the game and ways it can/should be improved, and I post about them when suitable and when they come up.

---

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

Seriously. I think you need to take a step back because your posts are becoming less and less rational/objective at every turn - not that they ever were.

Oh, okay, disregard. You just have a personal issue with me.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

How come I have to give it a rest for saying what I have seen discussed, and not the people saying this is the end of OOTP, that the devs decided to do this on a whim because they felt like it, and that Com2Us bought OOTP with the explicit purpose of later bankrupting them so they could get possession of the IP for themselves with OOTP out of the picture?

I think it *is* valuable to point out that this forum is about as extreme of a vocal minority that it's possible to be, and that based on my experience in the official discord server, the subreddit, and in the smaller communities and online league discussions I am a part of, the response is about as far removed from this forum as it's possible to be. You can think that "my discourse world" (whatever the heck that even means) is different if you want, but the reality is that this forum is by far the exception to things when it comes to OOTP, not the norm.

If your impression of me is that I always blindly defend the game no matter what and never have a bad word to say then I guess you don't have a particularly good impression of me. I have plenty of criticism for the game and ways it can/should be improved, and I post about them when suitable and when they come up.

---



Oh, okay, disregard. You just have a personal issue with me.

Oh no. Not letting you away with that BS.
And you DO know what I mean.
You have offered plenty of good insight/opinions/direction on multiple threads and much of it has been appreciated by the vast majority of forum participants, I'm sure. Myself included.
But anytime it comes to criticism of the game, I can clearly predict in advance where you will stand. And the deeper the debate goes, the more you dig in your heels......
....to the point where, IMHO, all objectivity disappears and, in the two most recent posts I quoted, there is absolutely no value. The posts are actually beneath you. There is no substance. They are just irrelevant responses to those who view things differently because you feel need to retort....or something. I guess.
They have no calories. They carry no weight. In fact, the second one is entirely factually incorrect. It has everything to do with Com2Us.
Let it go.
This forum isn't going to change a damned thing. Those who feel abused are justified, at least to some extent, IMO. Let them vent.
That won't change a damned thing either but hopefully they can get it off their chests.
Not every opinion needs to be countered.