Very disappointing decision

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by Kobeck

LOL
https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out...baseball-home/

still says "Buy Now"

just sayin'

And the build your own fictional world picture is half Japanese teams

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by Kobeck

LOL
https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out...baseball-home/

still says "Buy Now"

just sayin'

This applies to every single game you purchase digitally and essentially always has. Any EULA you agree to will define that you are licensing the game for use and do not own it. Not saying it's right but it's 100% industry standard for digital games to advertise their acquisition as 'buying' even though you're not really buying them. There are definitely reasons for OOTPD to have the ire of people right now but this one is pretty silly.

[hobbitrjw]

Originally Posted by FleetWalker

The EULA is still subject to local law in every jurisdiction in which the product is sold. Altering data on a user's device without getting explicit consent is problematic in a lot of places. It's likely why (as far as I can tell) the logo files haven't been removed from my machine. Deleting files from a user's computer without permission is an even bigger No-No.

Despite what we've all (including me) have been saying, my guess is that the game doesn't actually touch the physical data files users have saved. Instead, at the time the save gets loaded, the game scrambles the names. That way there is no argument that an individual's saved data has been altered. If you could load a pre-update saved game file in a pre-update version of 23 it would likely be fine. Just a hunch though.

Essentially it does because even while you load a save file in game it still is saved on your computer,therefore even if the scrambling happens upon loading,it still is altering saved data without permission. In my view I would say this is a VERY tricky thing to try to do ethically and I for one cannot believe that anyone at Com2us nor OOTP would even consider touching doing something so ethically questionable,even if legally being forced to do so. Even for Steam to approve such a ethically-questionable patch on their end isn't good either.

[MathBandit]

I don't know about y'all, but the reason I keep buying OOTP every year is in large part *specifically because* the devs constantly make changes throughout the year that alter my save data and change my game.

If I wanted to buy a one-stop-shot game there are plenty of games that do that, but I like OOTP because they support and patch the game over the entire lifecycle of it with constant additions/changes/tinkers that will have an impact on my save.

[4maddux_cy's]

Can you not create a japanese league at all now or just not call it the ***? Can I call a team the BayStars as a nickname? Even in another country?

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

If I wanted to buy a one-stop-shot game there are plenty of games that do that, but I like OOTP because they support and patch the game over the entire lifecycle of it with constant additions/changes/tinkers that will have an impact on my save.

I assume this is more trolling, just like the "lease" comment, right? There's no way you in your mind genuinely believe that intentionally corrupting a save file is the same thing as "additions/changes/tinkers that will have an impact on my save."

[4maddux_cy's]

Is there a way to update OOTP22 player database annually? Not sure if someone is already doing this.

[RaUni]

In case anyone needs a recap... here's what we know so far...

OOTP purposely damaged a product after they sold it to us, when they shouldn't have been selling it and got caught.

That's it. To defend this currently as it is, is insane.

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[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally Posted by hobbitrjw

Since you mentioned the fact that you are a lawyer,do you happen to have any knowledge of whether or not taking such action to mess with save game files for a game that people have PURCHASED,is even legal?

I am not that kind of a lawyer, so everything I have to say is like one step above "educated guess." In a big picture sense, I think RaUni's assessment of the problem is a good one, and it began about the time we started watching Netflix by clicking a button instead of fishing DVDs from the mail. Not sure if I'd agree with his solutions, mind you - whenever I've seen "Web3" discussed, it's been the setup for a fraud investment like cryptocurrency.

My take is that OOTPD's problem as it relates to consumers isn't because of wrecking people's saves. I bet that's covered by the agreement we all click through, and in some ways it makes sense - I shouldn't be able to sue Markus because my game crashed due to a bug.

I think their problem is that they evidently do not have the agreements in place to match what they have used as a selling point. That's a problem in most U.S. states, and I suspect in most other countries too. Their biggest worry should be Konami or whoever is threatening to sue over the Japanese license. Their second-biggest worry should be that they have sold their game to consumers based on the false promise of all these different world leagues, when they have no deals in place to license them (allegedly).

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

This applies to every single game you purchase digitally and essentially always has. Any EULA you agree to will define that you are licensing the game for use and do not own it. Not saying it's right but it's 100% industry standard for digital games to advertise their acquisition as 'buying' even though you're not really buying them. There are definitely reasons for OOTPD to have the ire of people right now but this one is pretty silly.

Correct. When we buy directly from OOTP, we are buying a license key that gives us two licenses to run the game. We are not buying the game itself.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by ehalt

I assume this is more trolling, just like the "lease" comment, right? There's no way you in your mind genuinely believe that intentionally corrupting a save file is the same thing as "additions/changes/tinkers that will have an impact on my save."

No trolling at all. Especially as my saves haven't been corrupted.

[BIG17EASY]

Does anyone know if the version purchased through the Apple Store has been updated with this "change?" If I remember correctly, patches are usually delayed on the Apple Store because they need to be approved by Apple. I'm curious to see if they approve of this situation OOTP has put its users in.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

No trolling at all. Especially as my saves haven't been corrupted.

Ah, so when a bunch of people are discussing a problem that's affecting them, you think it's a productive contribution to say, "Hey guys, it's not affecting me, so it's actually not a big deal." A bit self-centered, no? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by calling you a troll, but that's a good bit worse.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by ehalt

Ah, so when a bunch of people are discussing a problem that's affecting them, you think it's a productive contribution to say, "Hey guys, it's not affecting me, so it's actually not a big deal." A bit self-centered, no? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by calling you a troll, but that's a good bit worse.

That's not what I said. My saves have been affected same as anyone else's.

They haven't been corrupted.

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

INot sure if I'd agree with his solutions, mind you - whenever I've seen "Web3" discussed, it's been the setup for a fraud investment like cryptocurrency.

I offered no specific solutions and you're jumping to your own conclusion about Web3 and crypto being the same thing. Digital ownership of goods, will be on Web3 and doesn't mean anything regarding crypto. I would suggest you do some research into Web3 gaming/entertainment. I won't push you toward any specific direction, but I think you'll see that it does solve everything that is wrong in the current system. Greed is the system right now. This is unsustainable.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Correct. When we buy directly from OOTP, we are buying a license key that gives us two licenses to run the game. We are not buying the game itself.

The page I got the game from most definitely implied that I was buying the game.

If the defense to, "OOTP intentionally damaged a product after selling it to us," is "Well actually, they lied about selling it to you in the first place," that's not really a defense, is it?

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

That's not what I said. My saves have been affected same as anyone else's.

They haven't been corrupted.

Oh, so the troll explanation was right after all. Got it.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by ehalt

Oh, so the troll explanation was right after all. Got it.

I think the confusion here is your use of the term 'corrupted', which some will use to mean 'destroyed to the point of literal unplayability' in terms of game saves, whereas it seems you are using it as a synonym of tampered but with a stronger negative connotation to drive home your point. I don't think either side is wrong in this sub-sub-sub-debate within the greater topic but if I were in your position I would personally avoid using the specific word corrupted given it has a specific use in terms of video game save files and I wouldn't want my point to be confused leading to a nothingburger argument within a discussion on a deeper issue. Not that my opinion matters at all here.

EDIT: And in thinking deeper, those with ***-specific saves that are now unopenable post-patch could definitely argue that their saves were corrupted so you do have a further point there, although I haven't seen a single person mention that that's what they've dealt with in here to this point.

[ehalt]

My use of "corrupted" is intentional and accurate. Some may be uncomfortable using it, because they don't want to believe their favorite game company intentionally corrupted their saves, but that's precisely what happened. Hundreds of players and teams got their data changed. That's the textbook definition of a corrupted file. Using accurate terminology is important to help people understand how sketchy this is.

[damientheomen3]

Okay but again, corrupted game files make a game mechanically not function, not figuratively, in the sense that it is generally used. So that's where I see the confusion coming in. If you're willing to put the more important discussion aside to call somebody a troll for not understanding you using a term when you're not using it the way it's most commonly seen in context then that's fine but it just muddies the waters. I will definitely give you that, for those running ***-specific saves that can no longer play them, your use of the term can be deemed as accurate.

And I also recognize that I came from the woodworks to make this a bigger thing than it otherwise was shaping up to be so I'll bow out here. Have a good one.