Depth Chart Construction/Usage

[PSUColonel]

How many positions do you think it is wise to have a player as the primary back-up? So, if I have a bench player who is the primary back-up for 3 positions, is it perhaps spreading him too thin? Is it a better idea to have a player as the primary back-up for only one or two positions?

Any thoughts on this? Will the AI get confused? Is it a bad idea to make a player who serves as a defensive sub late in a game a primary back-up for multiple positions?

As you can see here, some players serve as back-ups at multiple positions. For instance is Matt Vierling or Micky Monica spread too thin?

I know this is something that was worked on heavily for version 23.

[Syd Thrift]

IME if you have two guys set to start if starter tired, the second guy will very rarely get used. I’m pretty sure that the AI logic is to go down the line for each position, see if the starter’s fatigue level is “tired” or not (the default is 85% but you can adjust that), and if so it will replace with the first available player on the list. In your lineup above, Moniak will get the start in CF vs RHP if both Schwarber and Herrera are tired on the same day. Otherwise, if for any reason they’re fatiguing at different rates (I don’t think CF and LF fatigue at different rates but I’m not positive) and they just drop below their fatigue threshold on different days, Moniak will only ever stay on the bench. Of course, if you play a guy a lot while tired (I think you can use a tired player to pinch-hit without it counting against rest but at some point if they play in the field - I’m not sure how much - they stay fatigued), the next day they’ll still be tired and still subject to being removed in favor of the other player. Theoretically if you had a guy set to start vs all OF positions if tired and you kept bringing the LF back in and not getting them rest, you could tire out your CF and RF because the game asks the “is this guy tired?” question in order as it goes down the list rather than prioritizing positions of what have you.

I *usually* have separate players cover corner OF vs CF and generally don’t ask one player to back up more than a couple positions unless I’m physically staggering their rest (that is, I’m starting a guy every 4th game at SS, every 5th at 2B, and every. 7th at 3B for example). It’s not, like, the end of the world if you have one utility guy though; you’ll just be playing starters tired every so often, so long as you actually rest the tired starters.

First base does fatigue at a much lower rate; IME even with a schedule with lots of double headers, 1B will only dip below 85% a few times a season. You can usually get away with using a guy as a backup 1B along with a couple other positions, or along with relying on them as your primary pinch-hitter.

[jimmysthebestcop]

The only position I have a sole backup player for is catcher but i always cross train him at 1b. Then I usually have 2 super utility guys. 2 guys that can play every position except catcher.

That gives me 12 batters so i can add an extra pitcher giving me 14 pitchers. The AI in my opinion when simming every game is awful at pitchers. They just have pitchers gassed all the time. Ive always given pitchers 1 extra space.

A single game would need more then 3 injuries in the field before I am affected then i dont care the AI can drop a pitcher on the field. I will take the loss.

If any of my fielders is really suffering exhaustion or day to day nagging injuries. I could always send 1 of my super utility guys down and bring up a real replacement player.

But i find for most of the time 2 guys and the catcher/1b backup is all i need to keep everyone not tired while simming weeks at a time. If its a big series or key game I can manually move players around etc.

I dont want waste a roster spot on a scrub that is only there to keep someone fresh. There are enough super utility guys that are actually pretty decent borderline starters.

I guess this is cause if i am simming an entire month the AI just gasses the pitcher staff and can never recover so you drop a mess of games cause no one is fresh and you cant recover unless you stop the sim take control. Then you usually have to send a bunch of pitchers down to minors and select them as do not play and bring up arms to your guys are fresh again.

1 extra pitcher just gives you a huge advantage against the AI. I dont think another batter or fielder gives any sort of in game advantage like that 1 extra pitcher.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

How many positions do you think it is wise to have a player as the primary back-up?

If he's the best backup you have and he's not backing up catcher, seven positions.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Like so many other questions, the answer is same-it depends on the player. If he's backing up multiple positions that means he's going to play a lot. That's either good or bad depending on the player.

[BaseballGOAT]

As a Cardinals fan, my depth chart has Brendan Donovan backing up all 4 infield spots, RF and LF and I play him at catcher in ST to make him the emergency catcher. It lengthens the bench for useful PH or PR types. And I use the new rules with 13H/13P

[Syd Thrift]

I'm doing a league set in the 70s so mostly it's 15 or 16 position players and no DH yet, so it works out a bit differently: you tend to run a lot more platoons and have more of a hierarchy of pinch-hitters over and above whoever happens to be on the bench. I also make pretty extensive use of the "every X days" function; in fact, the biggest thing I'll do if I have a guy covering several positions at once where I don't want to play anyone tired is to use that guy every 4th, 5th, and 7th games and the like (ideally you want to use players in combinations that aren't divisible; if you start a guy ever 2nd game at 2B and every 4th day at 3B for example, he will never play 3B because the game looks at 3B after 2B and every game divisible by 4 is also divisible by 2). In practice, even starting a player every 6th or 7th game prevents the regular at that position from dipping below the 85% threshold, although if you are really keen on it or your league has a ton of double-headers you can always put in a guy in "if starter tired" after the "every X game" guy.

And yeah, ST is a really, really good time to cross-train players at positions if you're going to use them. You can transform a SS only player into a "all of the infield" guy over the course of one March.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

And yeah, ST is a really, really good time to cross-train players at positions if you're going to use them. You can transform a SS only player into a "all of the infield" guy over the course of one March.

We’ll this was sort of why I asked the question also…I’m not just thinking of the active roster, but minor league rosters as well…which is a great way to cross-train players before they ever hit the MLB.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

We’ll this was sort of why I asked the question also…I’m not just thinking of the active roster, but minor league rosters as well…which is a great way to cross-train players before they ever hit the MLB.

You can also force start players in the minor leagues but a. it takes longer for them to learn new positions (I think still less long than it takes in the majors although the main point of this is that they aren't putting up .800 FAs in the big leagues while they're cross-training at the new position) and b. if you want to turn a guy into a utility player you might have to micro that a lot (like force-starting him at SS for a couple months, then 2B for a couple months, and so on). The AI manager tends to do whatever it thinks will win the most games, which is usually putting the best fielding IF at SS in every game it can.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Like so many other questions, the answer is same-it depends on the player. If he's backing up multiple positions that means he's going to play a lot. That's either good or bad depending on the player.

The idea a guy backing up three positions being spread too thin when fatigue and DTD to the regulars will get him maybe 30 starts a year....I don't see it at all.

[Pelican]

Remember that how much the backup guy plays depends upon the fatigue level of the guy(s) ahead of him. It they are all 100 stamina, he won’t even get the 30 starts Brad references. But, if one or more of the guys ahead of him have modest stamina levels, they are going to tire, and the backup will be busy. As Syd points out, you can control this by manually setting up lineups where the sub plays every fifth or seventh or twentieth day for a particular guy. I try to set this up, depending in part on how likely my starter is going to wear down, based on his stamina figure. One problem is that the sub tends to occupy the same spot in the lineup, which may not be what you would want.