way way way WAYYYY too many pickoffs

[FlyTheW1104]

Record breaking amount of pickoffs in my simulation. I've scoured the settings and see no way to turn them down? Does opting for more conservative baserunning help? This is ridiculous...

[dcordash]

Originally Posted by FlyTheW1104

Record breaking amount of pickoffs in my simulation. I've scoured the settings and see no way to turn them down? Does opting for more conservative baserunning help? This is ridiculous...

I've not seen that particular phenomenon but let me tell you what I have seen.........

[FlyTheW1104]

Let me guess... people drawing poor conclusions based on small sample sizes?

[md40022]

Originally Posted by FlyTheW1104

Let me guess... people drawing poor conclusions based on small sample sizes?

Yes, pickoffs are completely out of control. They are #2 on my list of things that have made playing this years game borderline unenjoyable.



I believe that the developers were aware of this, you aren't the first one to notice it. Whether a patch ever addressed it or not, I don't know.... but regardless, they are still way too frequent. And in situations that don't make sense. It's definitely something that's broken in this year's game.

[dcordash]

Originally Posted by FlyTheW1104

Let me guess... people drawing poor conclusions based on small sample sizes?

So, is it your conclusion that these people are making "poor" conclusions on a small sample set? What represents a large sample set to you? What are "good" conclusions.

All of these definitions are important in determining your value to the conversation.

[md40022]

My god, dude. Just go away already.

This guy asked an honest question in his post and your response had no other intent other than to completely hi-jack the topic and turn it into the "dcordash show", yet again. The act is tiresome, man. Give it a rest.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Can you see that when you look at stats? I mean the league totals. I am curious to see what the number for a season in game is and compare it to a few real life years of MLB.

But I do tend to agree and see them more than I usually do when watching a game in real life, but does not mean OOTP makes them happen more often, just curious.

[Lukas Berger]

This is certainly not a general problem for most people or most game settings, or something we ever run into while testing out hundreds or thousands of games and running thousands of sims.

If you've only played a few games, and it feels like there are too many pickoffs, then based on past experience, this is very likely to just be a sample size thing that will even out over time.

Now, that being said, it's always possible there can be an issue somewhere, that maybe only shows up under certain circumstances.

For this sort of thing, we really need to see some hard data, not just anecdotal accounts or data from super small sample sizes.

So if you're seeing this, and you've played a good amount of games, preferably closer to a full season than not, and your league or even your team as a whole has a really unrealistic amount of pickoffs, then please, send in a copy of the save files for that league so we can take a look at them.

[md40022]

I would call it a general problem......

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...ight=pick+offs

I think it might have been improved a little bit via a patch, but its still jacked up.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by md40022

I would call it a general problem......

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...ight=pick+offs

I think it might have been improved a little bit via a patch, but its still jacked up.

That thread is four months old and it was definitely adjusted in the patch back then.

So at this point, we're not seeing this sort of thing anymore in our testing and so for anyone who is, what I said still goes, that we need more data.

[Lukas Berger]

I'm certainly not saying it's impossible there may still be a genuine issue in some cases, but we'd really need some better documentation of this in order to justify looking into this more.

[Syd Thrift]

Hey, so related to this, the game doesn't seem to track pickoffs (or infield hits, infield pop-ups, runner advance/hold/thrown out rates for base hits into the outfield*, or a slew of other things I'd love to see) in a way that we as end users can easily see this / point it out. Can we get these added in to the individual / team stats so we can run these kinds of trials and either confirm that these are issues or, perhaps, pre-emptively head them off at the pass?

*Check out the Team Advanced Fielding table here:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...fielding.shtml

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Hey, so related to this, the game doesn't seem to track pickoffs (or infield hits, infield pop-ups, runner advance/hold/thrown out rates for base hits into the outfield*, or a slew of other things I'd love to see) in a way that we as end users can easily see this / point it out. Can we get these added in to the individual / team stats so we can run these kinds of trials and either confirm that these are issues or, perhaps, pre-emptively head them off at the pass?

*Check out the Team Advanced Fielding table here:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...fielding.shtml

I know that in Perfect Team a lot of the data collectors have noted that at the end of the year they have considerably more caught stealing that attempted steals... which I assume implies that a ton of guys are getting picked off.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

I know that in Perfect Team a lot of the data collectors have noted that at the end of the year they have considerably more caught stealing that attempted steals... which I assume implies that a ton of guys are getting picked off.

If they're looking in the team stats table, that's a bug in how it that stat gets calculated and displays there (it effectively is displaying SB and CS rather than SB Attempts vs CS), it's unrelated to pickoffs.

[Lukas Berger]

I guess obviously it's a little tough to demand more data when we don't really give you all an easy way to track it

Probably the best thing to do is if you have a save where you feel you've really seen this an exorbitant amount, to send us like a month of your team's game logs and then we can sort through those.

Or even better would be to upload the .dat files from that save, and then we can sim through it ourselves in debug mode, where we can get an output for the rate of pickoffs.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

I know that in Perfect Team a lot of the data collectors have noted that at the end of the year they have considerably more caught stealing that attempted steals... which I assume implies that a ton of guys are getting picked off.

The game doesn't count pickoffs as attempted steals, which is correct, except in the case of 1-3-6 pickoffs (i.e. when the runner makes a move to second base). I've actually yet to see one of those but I've also seen my fair share of 1-3 pickoffs and they don't get counted as CSes in the game.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I guess obviously it's a little tough to demand more data when we don't really give you all an easy way to track it

Probably the best thing to do is if you have a save where you feel you've really seen this an exorbitant amount, to send us like a month of your team's game logs and then we can sort through those.

Or even better would be to upload the .dat files from that save, and then we can sim through it ourselves in debug mode, where we can get an output for the rate of pickoffs.

I'd also just like to have those stats for info's sake, and to increase the narrative I can fashion around my own leagues. Just, aside from anything else, I think it would be really awesome to create a baserunning view that details how many times a particular guy / team was picked off and their success rates for steals and taking extra bases on hits.

And like I said it allows us to hit this stuff on our side as well and go at these complaints with data. Not to derail this thread but I've seen the "too many infield hits" complaint on OOTP reddit and other than the "the devs have tested this and everything looks like it's in line", there's not a lot one can do to counteract that. Keeping track of IF hits on a player and team level would go a long way in helping us head that stuff off at the pass and, where accurate, be able to come back to you guys with actual data you could use to fix things. Also it would open up new avenues for research - is the spread for pickoffs not large enough, for instance (i.e. it seems like an awful lot of POs IRL are executed by left-handed pitchers; do they not get a high enough percentage in the game?), or are baserunning decisions and steals too elastic (which I suspect is the case but I've got no way of proving ATM)?

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

That thread is four months old and it was definitely adjusted in the patch back then.

So at this point, we're not seeing this sort of thing anymore in our testing and so for anyone who is, what I said still goes, that we need more data.

Here's 3 pickoffs in a 2 inning span..... I don't know if this qualifies as "more data" or not, but none the less it is data provided by someone who said there's far too many pickoffs on a thread started by another user who also said there are far too many pickoffs.


So, send this back to the boys' at the lab if ya wish.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I guess obviously it's a little tough to demand more data when we don't really give you all an easy way to track it

.

And being that most users sim and don't manage the games and don't have a way to really track this ---- I think the assumption that it was fixed via the patch was just that, an assumption.


As someone who manages every game, I say with absolute confidence that there are too many pickoffs. My initial comments stand. That patched helped it a little - it did not "fix" it, because a standard 1-to-3 pickoff doesn't happen 3 times in a 2 inning span,,, ever.

[jaa36]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/...x180m8stqnmhg2

Well it's happened three times in one inning...