Should We Be Worried About Perfect Team...

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I don't think you or anyone else here is in any position to speculate why someone isn't an active member of these message boards anymore.

Perhaps not…just a strong suspicion.

[BarneyRubble]

I don't play PT and therefore I have no reason to worry about it. As for OOTP, I think OOTP has progressed fine over the years. Some years more so than others.

If you asked 10 people what they'd like to see, you'd get 10 different answers.

I buy OOTP every year, directly from them. When I no longer desire to support them, I'll stop.

[tcblcommish]

Ultimate team modes are a huge money maker and the more money that gets made through them, the more resources they get to push for when more money. All of the major sports titles have gone downhill since or even before the ultimate team modes but there is no question that these modes take away from the grand design.

I'm not talking about ootp because there isn't really as much evidence with this game but if you look at probably the best UT mode out there in the SHOW, the rest of the game has suffered tremendously while that particular mode has grown and had the most work done to it. Franchise mode hasn't improved by much and probably won't and there is no doubt that the resources are not there. Same with all of the EA titles.

Of course, a lot of the lack of updates are due to a serious lack of competition. I don't think that this can be denied and moat sports gaming has been declining for thw single player and for the most part game play wise for years but ultimate teams have taken a toll.

I know when it was first announced, I thought that sounds cool but I'm not really a fan of it at all and rarely play it though I do have a solid enough team but if you get to a certain point, you either waste away in mediocrity or put some cash into and that's when I just stop paying attention. However as the last couple of versions have come out, I have to say I do not like the game anywhere near as much as I used to. Too many legacy issues still are around though I do play the game too much.

I am very concerned about the direction this game is going, im worried for the future of the game and how much more will be devoted to PT. I hope I'm wrong but I do feel like sooner rather than later will be my last OOTP.

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[PSUColonel]

One thing you can say for SI (and I know people are tired of the comparisons…but that’s life) is they are dedicated completely to the single player experience.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

One thing you can say for SI (and I know people are tired of the comparisons…but that’s life) is they are dedicated completely to the single player experience.

Pretty sure they tried an online type game a few years ago and it failed.

Am I wrong on that?

[Anteater]

Football Manager Live had a two year run from 2009-2011.

[PSUColonel]

Yeah, that was a long time ago and I don’t think they were too serious about it. They’ve always concentrated the vast bulk of resources on the single player management aspects.

[Anteater]

At the time I had the impression it was a pet project for one of the founding Collyer brothers.

[Syd Thrift]

OOTP also inherited that fanbase who used to do pen and paper leagues and now do online leagues. I don’t think that’s ever been a huge focus of FM either.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Yeah, that was a long time ago and I don’t think they were too serious about it. They’ve always concentrated the vast bulk of resources on the single player management aspects.

So it was just for the fun of it? Ah, no.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Sweed

So it was just for the fun of it? Ah, no.

The point is…in the big picture (body of work). SI has overwhelmingly dedicated its resources to the single player management experience…something I think OOTP should had continued doing as well…but hasn’t.

Markus may say there was no way to go on without PT…and I have no idea. …maybe that’s true…but I also think it’s clear that development for the single player experience is suffering on some level…perhaps not as horribly as some here would have you believe, but definitely on some level.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The point is…in the big picture (body of work). SI has overwhelmingly dedicated its resources to the single player management experience…something I think OOTP should had continued doing as well…but hasn’t.

Markus may say there was no way to go on without PT…and I have no idea. …maybe that’s true…but I also think it’s clear that development for the single player experience is suffering on some level…perhaps not as horribly as some here would have you believe, but definitely on some level.

SI tried it because, like all businesses, they hoped it would hit and be a cash cow. To think otherwise is naive. It would be interesting, and maybe sad, to see how it all would have gone if it had been a big hit.

Markus has always been upfront about PT. It is to make money. Absolutely noting wrong with that. Yet many users\former users have crucified him for it. How dare he?!! The fact he has continued to produce OOTP when, in reality, he would have probably been better off to pull the plug, tells me he loves his creation.

Single player has suffered? Maybe if you want an FM financial, RPG world. It has not suffered if you play out your games. I highly doubt we would have the in-game experience we do now without PT. Maybe I'm wrong? With or without PT OOTP was going to have to chose which side of the game to improve on first. Field manage or GM. Someone has been, and is always going to be the redheaded step child.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by Sweed

SI tried it because, like all businesses, they hoped it would hit and be a cash cow. To think otherwise is naive. It would be interesting, and maybe sad, to see how it all would have gone if it had been a big hit.

Markus has always been upfront about PT. It is to make money. Absolutely noting wrong with that. Yet many users\former users have crucified him for it. How dare he?!! The fact he has continued to produce OOTP when, in reality, he would have probably been better off to pull the plug, tells me he loves his creation.

Single player has suffered? Maybe if you want an FM financial, RPG world. It has not suffered if you play out your games. I highly doubt we would have the in-game experience we do now without PT. Maybe I'm wrong? With or without PT OOTP was going to have to chose which side of the game to improve on first. Field manage or GM. Someone has been, and is always going to be the redheaded step child.

Markus isn’t the owner anymore. So as much as he loves his creation and cares about the SP aspect of the game, the new owners are heavy into mobile and PT, so it’s right to have concerns when the actual owners care more about PT then they do the base game.
In your opinion the game hasn’t suffered, while discounting anyone else’s opinion that feel differently.
What in game experience wouldn’t we have without PT? I’m really curious what, if anything, PT has done to boost the base game.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

Markus isn’t the owner anymore. So as much as he loves his creation and cares about the SP aspect of the game, the new owners are heavy into mobile and PT, so it’s right to have concerns when the actual owners care more about PT then they do the base game.
In your opinion the game hasn’t suffered, while discounting anyone else’s opinion that feel differently.
What in game experience wouldn’t we have without PT? I’m really curious what, if anything, PT has done to boost the base game.

Well, I am just responding to someone else's opinion. Is that a bad thing? So me having an opinion discounts other's opinions? Does their opinion discount mine? If not, why not?


Yes, Markus does not own the company and is why it would have been easier for him to pull the plug on OOTP. Thanks for making my point for me.

Also check around the boards this year to see what com2us is putting up on their website about OOTP. This isn't from personally looking but.. from reading posters here? Nothing, not even mentioned. Now those that worried about com2us interfering are complaining it's not on their site. Which is it?
They're going to be too involved or not involved?

[jcard]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Well, I am just responding to someone else's opinion. Is that a bad thing? So me having an opinion discounts other's opinions? Does their opinion discount mine? If not, why not?


Yes, Markus does not own the company and is why it would have been easier for him to pull the plug on OOTP. Thanks for making my point for me.

Also check around the boards this year to see what com2us is putting up on their website about OOTP. This isn't from personally looking but.. from reading posters here? Nothing, not even mentioned. Now those that worried about com2us interfering are complaining it's not on their site. Which is it?
They're going to be too involved or not involved?

Please promise to never make an argument on my behalf. Thanks.

[kidd_05_u2]

It is funny to me how many users there are with thousands of posts and more than a decade in the forum who are constantly worrying about the demise of OOTP and trying to find evidence about game development going wrong.

This year we had a big game engine rewrite and 3d improvements and yet OOTP23 is seen by some as evidence that development of the base game is weakening? I definitely don't share that view.

Also, PT is a very basic and featureless game mode. It is hard for me to believe that its development is taking massive resources away from the base game.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I don't think you or anyone else here is in any position to speculate why someone isn't an active member of these message boards anymore.

I agree!

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by kidd_05_u2

It is funny to me how many users there are with thousands of posts and more than a decade in the forum who are constantly worrying about the demise of OOTP and trying to find evidence about game development going wrong.

This year we had a big game engine rewrite and 3d improvements and yet OOTP23 is seen by some as evidence that development of the base game is weakening? I definitely don't share that view.

Also, PT is a very basic and featureless game mode. It is hard for me to believe that its development is taking massive resources away from the base game.

This ^^^

[bwiese3908]

Originally Posted by kidd_05_u2

It is funny to me how many users there are with thousands of posts and more than a decade in the forum who are constantly worrying about the demise of OOTP and trying to find evidence about game development going wrong.

This year we had a big game engine rewrite and 3d improvements and yet OOTP23 is seen by some as evidence that development of the base game is weakening? I definitely don't share that view.

Also, PT is a very basic and featureless game mode. It is hard for me to believe that its development is taking massive resources away from the base game.

Most people worry about things they care about... not really a mystery.

[pauwoo]

For what it is worth (probably nothing), and in response to the original question... no. I don't think it's time to worry. I think that 23, while not the smoothest of releases, is a good product. I've been happy with it even while being low-key dissappointed by some of the changes that have made modding more difficult (nameset issues, etc). And, I don't mean to exonerate some of the early issues/bugs the core product had this time around, I just feel that the support, patch work, etc has been there, and I feel like the money I spent was fair for what I'm getting in return. Also, while I've purchased every release since 16 or 17 (I'm not as OG as most on these boards), I've never done it blindly, so... if we get to a place that I find worrisome, that's when I'll hold off on forking over the dough.

Also, I played PT a bit last year, and had a lot of fun with the Tournaments... until I didn't. Things start to turn into a complex math problem as players chase the 'meta' to optimize lineups. You'd end up in Tournaments where everyone had identical (or nearly identical) rosters, making it all feel like a coin toss. Fun at first, not my bag long-term. I'm interested to see how they flesh that mode out... the ripping packs aesthetic is cool, I just think the modes could improve.

I play the core product and, frankly, could happily play this version (or 22) for the foreseeable future with no complaints... I've been reading a lot of posts about this release not making significant enough strides - something we see on these boards with every release, though it feels a bit more prominent this time around (recency bias?). Often, when I read the critiques, which are all valid in their way, it only serves to underscore my belief that this versatile piece of software lends itself to so many different styles of play that it would be impossible to please every one... i.e. the things I look for as a, primarily, fictional player usually don't jive with the wishes of a historical player, etc.

Anyway, just adding my $0.02 to a thread that's probably been beaten to death already...