First Round Pick Retires....to play football?

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by locuspc

The charity storyline was actually fixed this year. But I agree, it's frustrating how underdeveloped the storyline system is. The biggest problem is the lack of documentation, there is a modding community that could work around and improve some of the issues with storylines, but they'd have to know how the system works first.

Good to know it only took 3 versions+ to fix the charity storyline lol.

I just turn them off because its no interaction with the user. At least simple chained events like Paradox titles would be more enjoyable and have user input.

The storylines are just random for random players from a storylist. We see it play out with no interaction. I honestly dont even see the point of it.

I want to interact with the game, players, owners, coaches, fans, cities etc. Not just get a random story spit out to me automatically.

Honestly OOTP systems outside of simming, number crunching are all the same. Great concepts executed to the least common denominator in the most simplest way possible with no user interaction.

It might sound harsh but its the truth. Just like the 3d stadiums. Its a glorified costume editor. It has no interaction with the game world or the user.

Owner controls budget same thing. Can we have a sit down meeting? Bargain? Petition the owner to increase budget? Threaten to quit if we dont get more money? NO.

Absolutely no interaction, it just exists.So what is the point then? It is not for FUN. How could a system that has no interaction be fun? We the user arent required to do anything.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Good to know it only took 3 versions+ to fix the charity storyline lol.

I just turn them off because its no interaction with the user. At least simple chained events like Paradox titles would be more enjoyable and have user input.

The storylines are just random for random players from a storylist. We see it play out with no interaction. I honestly dont even see the point of it.

I want to interact with the game, players, owners, coaches, fans, cities etc. Not just get a random story spit out to me automatically.

Honestly OOTP systems outside of simming, number crunching are all the same. Great concepts executed to the least common denominator in the most simplest way possible with no user interaction.

It might sound harsh but its the truth. Just like the 3d stadiums. Its a glorified costume editor. It has no interaction with the game world or the user.

Owner controls budget same thing. Can we have a sit down meeting? Bargain? Petition the owner to increase budget? Threaten to quit if we dont get more money? NO.

Absolutely no interaction, it just exists.So what is the point then? It is not for FUN. How could a system that has no interaction be fun? We the user arent required to do anything.

That's not this game. The stadiums matter just like the uniforms matter. But the level of interaction you are now describing (like with the owner) is not this game and I don't think that's what the vast majority of the market wants from it.

The Owner sets constraints on control, finances, goals, etc that can shape the challenge of being the GM in that market. It's not a role-play game and ought not try to be. The constraints in the current mechanic ought to be refined but not reinvented. If you want to pretend you are bargaining with the AI Owner, pretend you won or lost and edit the finances accordingly. How is that better than a dice roll giving you a 5% bump or deduction. Because that's all it would be is a dice roll. The fun is working within the constraints of the Owner. I'm sympathetic to a lot of the arguments you've made that the existing color mechanics ought to be refined and improved... but if your expectation is that you'll be doing all the things listed above in OOTP, I respectfully think you are in the minority. I'm not sure many people want developer attention diverted to that cause.

EDIT: I don't want what I said to be taken as being dismissive of a desire to have those things in the game but did want to make the point that I think, at its core, OOTP isn't built to run that way and I don't think it ever will be. And the game that it is - even without those elements mentioned - is still a great game. Over on the other thread (AI Logic) where you sought focus on at the very least revisiting these mechanics and making what they are, better... is probably more in the realm of doable and would suffice for most of the users.

[NoOne]

for that particular storyline, but maybe not off-field injuries or others, a little hint is a rational thing to expect. you would have some hint this was a possibility at the very least... of any 2-spot star.

maybe they do? this is something i always turn off. like owner goals, because i don't always want "realistic" in a goddamn video game, lol.

i don't want to deal with a lawsuit from some fan not paying attention that gets hit be a baseball, either... the tedious stuff is for the birds. lol.

[TuckerDuckson]

I know it's really low on the totem pole when it comes to such a coding expansive game as OOTP with a bunch of moving parts and all, but I'd love just more storylines, just to flesh out the world, make it feel just real.

Things like the Pederson/Pham beef over fantasy football. I know there are things with players calling out other players, but what if one day one of your players just doesn't show up to the game, or practice or spring training and you need to discipline them. Maybe a player shows up overweight, or you notice is putting on weight as a season is going. Or maybe, as painful as this is in real life, but maybe a player goes through a divorce ala Ben Zobrist/Eduardo Rodriguez, and it has the chance to effect their performance. Or, ones like baseball charity events, more players in commercials stuff, more things like teammates opening up a business and that fleshing out. Why does it always fail? Maybe it can be successful and when one of the two partners gets traded, his "stake" is sold to another member of the team. Maybe, we could have a Fausto Carmona storyline where a player is found out to have been playing under a false name and age, so after that storyline their name and age reflect that. Maybe there are storylines where players do end up changing their name, Felipe Vasquez, Giancarlo Stanton, Hudson Potts etc.

One of my favorite storylines was way back in I think it was 17, and it's still in the game I think, was when Aaron Blair of all people fell off his roof in the off season, and like shattered his back, and was out for 12 months. This originally is diagnosed as a career ending or at least altering injury, but two days later, you get an email, that he started making amazing progress, then throughout the off season. Then like weeks later you get mail about how he is doing better, got discharged and is progressing. Then you get an email about how he is able to get out of his wheelchair etc, and then finally makes it back to the field. It made me actually care about Aaron Blair's career path even though I was managing the Phillies at the time. I full simmed his regular season debut because of it.

I'd like storylines to have follow ups or such like this, so we can readily attribute things to players etc, and make our computer screen worlds just that much more immersive. Just a pipe dream though.

I also know this isn't possible, but I'd love if there was a trigger in mlb starts, that once every IRL mlb player has retired or, like is no longer active, we could have drug suspensions, or just have "suspensions" be used more, or maybe the bereavement list and restricted list could get expanded too. But I feel like that wouldn't fly with the MLBPA at all anyways.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

That's not this game. The stadiums matter just like the uniforms matter. But the level of interaction you are now describing (like with the owner) is not this game and I don't think that's what the vast majority of the market wants from it.

The Owner sets constraints on control, finances, goals, etc that can shape the challenge of being the GM in that market. It's not a role-play game and ought not try to be. The constraints in the current mechanic ought to be refined but not reinvented. If you want to pretend you are bargaining with the AI Owner, pretend you won or lost and edit the finances accordingly. How is that better than a dice roll giving you a 5% bump or deduction. Because that's all it would be is a dice roll. The fun is working within the constraints of the Owner. I'm sympathetic to a lot of the arguments you've made that the existing color mechanics ought to be refined and improved... but if your expectation is that you'll be doing all the things listed above in OOTP, I respectfully think you are in the minority. I'm not sure many people want developer attention diverted to that cause.

EDIT: I don't want what I said to be taken as being dismissive of a desire to have those things in the game but did want to make the point that I think, at its core, OOTP isn't built to run that way and I don't think it ever will be. And the game that it is - even without those elements mentioned - is still a great game. Over on the other thread (AI Logic) where you sought focus on at the very least revisiting these mechanics and making what they are, better... is probably more in the realm of doable and would suffice for most of the users.

Owner controls budget is really bad for the AI though. We ran tests in OOTP every owner basically reduces the budget no matter what the owner stats are. And in some cases it is dramatic. I think it was the Mil Brewers who had 100+ million reduction and that is on AI teams.

The last thing the AI needs is LESS budget. They cant handle the finances anyway.

I actually agree with a lot what you said. However the PROBLEM is OOTPD put all of these management universe teases in OOTP so they open themselves up to criticism.

If you cant do storylines, owners, fans, cities, personalities in way that is interactive and enjoyable and actually makes sense in the universe then dont do it.

The storyline are a great idea but absolutely awful in execution and implementation. But if it didnt exist we couldnt complain about them being awful.

I would also point out that the market OOTP caters to is also what keeps the game small. They cater to die hard baseball fans and that is it. All that customization is great and being a jack of all trades game.

BUT it is the very thing that keeps OOTP from reaching its fullest potential.

Motorsport Madness is 6 years old, from Indy dev but big producer Sega, it still has more daily Steam users then OOTP 23 does.

Pro Cycling Manager 2022 has more daily steam users as well. I refuse to believe cycling is more popular then baseball. But its a better management game.

FM has about 100x more daily players. It's not even close.

Even Farming Simulator has around 50x time daily players. And OOTP is in the same genre of games.

OOTP has a tremendous loyal following but it is a micro following. Part of what the long time OOTP players like and part of what OOTPd wish for their game is also what holds OOTP back from getting a massive following.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

If there was a flag on a player that said "1% chance he decides to play football instead of baseball", would that really change your decision about whether or not to pick him? When there was already a 50% chance he turns into a pumpkin anyways?

Its about realism. One is FAR more predictable than the other.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

Its about realism. One is FAR more predictable than the other.

I agree that it's much easier to predict that a first-round pick never reaches the majors than that he quits to play football.

[Syd Thrift]

I mean, it’s far easier to predict “first round pick doesn’t make majors” than “first round pick doesn’t make majors because of this specific reason” just due to the nature of… objects? Logic? The universe?

I do feel like the storyline should have a weight minimum for the football story (perhaps they do? I don’t think I’ve heard about it happening to 160 pound guys in the last couple versions) and if they’re going to include positions like defensive end, for the defensive end storyline it should be like 270 pounds. Which in and of itself would be a way for these guys to screen out these players, like don’t draft the huge offensive lineman looking guy because he might wind up playing on the offensive line.

All that said, baseball players have also quit because they wanted to pursue a golf career (that might have been a ruse by Robin Yount to keep the Brewers from moving him off of shortstop but who knows at this point), had a fear of flying, were beaten to death trying to hijack a plane, we’re body slammed onto their pitching arm in a bar fight, were shot to death in a case of mistaken identity, crashed their plane while practicing takeoffs and landings… if anything I’d like more of these storylines, not fewer of them.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Again the problem is the stories have ZERO user interaction.

At least give options to handle a player even it fails. Just a random firing of a random story and player with random results. Who needs that?

The stories should have user interaction if not why bother with them? They are just a nuisance that never gets updated or improved.

[KBLover]

Originally Posted by Bobfather

Too bad OOTP doesn't make a football game, then you could keep him as a 2 sport star, or even manage the football team he plays for. An OOTP multi-sports verse.

I'd play this for sure.

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

All that said, baseball players have also quit because they wanted to pursue a golf career (that might have been a ruse by Robin Yount to keep the Brewers from moving him off of shortstop but who knows at this point), had a fear of flying, were beaten to death trying to hijack a plane, we’re body slammed onto their pitching arm in a bar fight, were shot to death in a case of mistaken identity, crashed their plane while practicing takeoffs and landings… if anything I’d like more of these storylines, not fewer of them.

I mean, take all those reasons, put check boxes on them. If that box is checked, there's a chance that reason could happen to this game somewhere in his career.

Maybe if your scouting budget is high enough, your scout good enough, and you repeatedly scout him (like you're digging into his background), you might get a "he likes very adventurous activities in the offseason", raising the chances of said injury during crashing his private plane, or a mountain climbin accident, etc. Otherwise, you may never know except via a blurb one off-season about the player flying himself cross-country and loving it and can't wait to do it again next year.

I know it's not "easy" but it's not beyond the bounds of text-based sim game programming to do it.

And I agree, I'd be into more of them.

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Again the problem is the stories have ZERO user interaction.

At least give options to handle a player even it fails. Just a random firing of a random story and player with random results. Who needs that?

The stories should have user interaction if not why bother with them? They are just a nuisance that never gets updated or improved.

I can understand that and wouldn't be against it. Heck, if you told "Airplane" Jones that he can't go on his cross-country trips anymore, maybe he'd get Angry morale and be a constant distraction, especially if he has an Outspoken or Disruptive personality class.

[Syd Thrift]

If you really wanted to “check boxes”, all those storylines are in the English.xml file to delete. I have to be honest, I like options but OOTP’s approach of “make everything optional and customizeable” is sometimes overwhelming to me as a person who’s played the game for years and has got to be a massive barrier to newer players.

[William Satterwhite]

Originally Posted by Marinersfan51

This seems like a storyline that needs to be set up pre-draft. While this is almost exactly what happened a few years ago with Kyler Murray, the A's knew that he was a football player prior to drafting him. There should have been a news story pre-draft about him winning the Heisman or something.

For what it's worth, when the A's drafted Kyler Murray he wasn't considered a big NFL prospect due to his size and somewhat sketchy track record so the "sudden" retirement thing is actually kind of realistic when you compare to his situation.

[Marinersfan51]

Originally Posted by William Satterwhite

For what it's worth, when the A's drafted Kyler Murray he wasn't considered a big NFL prospect due to his size and somewhat sketchy track record so the "sudden" retirement thing is actually kind of realistic when you compare to his situation.

IIRC he was a 5* football recruit who had already been named the starting QB at Oklahoma (or was merely in a performative "competition" for the starting job) when the A's drafted him, so it's not like him going to the NFL was unexpected. I think the assumption prior to the draft and after getting drafted by the A's was that he was ultimately going to play football even before his breakout Heisman season.

Since a lot of the storylines have multiple chapters, I think this one would be best served with a pre-draft story about how he is an elite college football player and then maybe a followup story about him winning the Heisman or being an All-American prior to the announcement that he is retiring from baseball. That way if you see the pre-draft football story, you know that a sudden retirement is a possibility.

Overall the storylines are mostly underwhelming. It seems like there are 3-4 that just pop up every few seasons. I don't know how many of my players have gone to India to meditate with a yogi, but it seems like most of the team and the rest have all bought an RV to tailgate with the fans.