Football Manager vs OOTP! Silly??

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Since it’s just a database shouldn’t FM also do historical?
Please no excuses for FM because of lack of stats, all of rule changes etc. A good dedicated group of coders would overcome this problem. Well at least they would if they cared and wanted to make their game as “good as it can be”. Ootp coders are able to cover different eras and rules. I guess FM coders just don’t care?

If we’re going to compare then we need to compare the whole package. You can’t pick FM’s strengths and then ignore it’s weakness. Fm outscores ootp in management, 10 to 1? ( you pick the numbers).
Historical? Fm is zero, no matter what score you give ootp:

I just read this, and sort of talked a little about this in my previous post. Yep, there are things OOTP does that FM doesn't. Historical play and customization are some of those things (although FM is catching up with a separate editing mod for sale) I am mostly referring to management simulation although.

I know people are different, and want different things...but for me personally, I want a management sim that puts me in the GM chair, and really gives me the feeling I am doing the job. I know not everyone wants that kind of detail, but for me, that's the standard by which I judge. On field simulation is very important to me also, and both FM & OOTP do a great job of this.

So again for me, the criteria is the management experience.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Since it’s just a database shouldn’t FM also do historical?
Please no excuses for FM because of lack of stats, all of rule changes etc. A good dedicated group of coders would overcome this problem. Well at least they would if they cared and wanted to make their game as “good as it can be”. Ootp coders are able to cover different eras and rules. I guess FM coders just don’t care?

If we’re going to compare then we need to compare the whole package. You can’t pick FM’s strengths and then ignore it’s weakness. Fm outscores ootp in management, 10 to 1? ( you pick the numbers).
Historical? Fm is zero, no matter what score you give ootp:

Again historical and fictional aren't popular. It isn't a selling a point. Your entire statement goes along with the concept of why OOTP isn't more popular.

Historical and fictional is a micro subset of OOTP users. It has ZERO selling popular points with larger baseball fans, sport sim fans and management fans.

Look at Apple they go against their hardcore niche micro subset group and continue to get more and more popular. When they eliminate features the popular user base praises them for it. Even if their niche fanbase criticizes them.

Historical and fictional flat out don't sell. Don't make the game more popular. Don't get the game more pull on social media or with content creators.

Adapt or Die. Content creators drive the entire video game market in modern times. From AAA titles to super small Indy titles. It's the #1 driving factor. It takes small Indy games and makes them hugely successful and popular.

See this is the problem what you call OOTP strengths are in fact it's weaknesses.

Just think of the gained resources and streamlined code if there was no historical, fictional, or hugely customized universe?

Yes maybe the hardcore niche OOTP users would be angry. But perhaps those resources could improve the stagnant GUI. It needs to be modernized. And perhaps it gets on the attention of content creators and OOTP gains a huge user base which increases revenue.

This is exactly why I made this thread. So with FM picks the popular option time and time again. Even if it's niche hardcore fanbase gets upset. Because it gains them more popularity which gains more $$$ which leads to more improvement.

OOTP will probably continue to moderate increase but it might be to late to save the sinking ship. Writing is on the wall.

To make OOTP revolutionary better the old way of thinking Bout OOTP must be thrown out. If not expect the same game year and year out.

Again this has nothing to do if OOTP is enjoyable, fun or good. It's about being popular and opening OOTP up to the larger video game market.

Look at farming simulator? You think it's farmers buying it? Lmao. It's sim video games fans buying it cause it's a great modern title.

While OOTP only gets a subset of baseball fans. And it seems happy to stay that way. Instead of opening OOTP to the larger gaming community.

Gaming community larger then sports and entertainment.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Again historical and fictional aren't popular. It isn't a selling a point. Your entire statement goes along with the concept of why OOTP isn't more popular.

Historical and fictional is a micro subset of OOTP users. It has ZERO selling popular points with larger baseball fans, sport sim fans and management fans.

Look at Apple they go against their hardcore niche micro subset group and continue to get more and more popular. When they eliminate features the popular user base praises them for it. Even if their niche fanbase criticizes them.

Historical and fictional flat out don't sell. Don't make the game more popular. Don't get the game more pull on social media or with content creators.

Adapt or Die. Content creators drive the entire video game market in modern times. From AAA titles to super small Indy titles. It's the #1 driving factor. It takes small Indy games and makes them hugely successful and popular.

See this is the problem what you call OOTP strengths are in fact it's weaknesses.

Just think of the gained resources and streamlined code if there was no historical, fictional, or hugely customized universe?

Yes maybe the hardcore niche OOTP users would be angry. But perhaps those resources could improve the stagnant GUI. It needs to be modernized. And perhaps it gets on the attention of content creators and OOTP gains a huge user base which increases revenue.

This is exactly why I made this thread. So with FM picks the popular option time and time again. Even if it's niche hardcore fanbase gets upset. Because it gains them more popularity which gains more $$$ which leads to more improvement.

OOTP will probably continue to moderate increase but it might be to late to save the sinking ship. Writing is on the wall.

To make OOTP revolutionary better the old way of thinking Bout OOTP must be thrown out. If not expect the same game year and year out.

Again this has nothing to do if OOTP is enjoyable, fun or good. It's about being popular and opening OOTP up to the larger video game market.

Look at farming simulator? You think it's farmers buying it? Lmao. It's sim video games fans buying it cause it's a great modern title.

While OOTP only gets a subset of baseball fans. And it seems happy to stay that way. Instead of opening OOTP to the larger gaming community.

Gaming community larger then sports and entertainment.

Well, yea, but at the same time you can go to far in this direction also. I think that IS why FM is such a great product...it is modern, has very good management AI, it has a great simulation engine, and it doesn't abandon the experience for gaminess. It stays true to the spirit of the sport and excels as a management simulation. I mean, it's so god it actually has "personality"...I am not sure I have ever been able to say that about a strategy game before.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Again historical and fictional aren't popular. It isn't a selling a point. Your entire statement goes along with the concept of why OOTP isn't more popular.

Historical and fictional is a micro subset of OOTP users. It has ZERO selling popular points with larger baseball fans, sport sim fans and management fans.

Look at Apple they go against their hardcore niche micro subset group and continue to get more and more popular. When they eliminate features the popular user base praises them for it. Even if their niche fanbase criticizes them.

Historical and fictional flat out don't sell. Don't make the game more popular. Don't get the game more pull on social media or with content creators.

Adapt or Die. Content creators drive the entire video game market in modern times. From AAA titles to super small Indy titles. It's the #1 driving factor. It takes small Indy games and makes them hugely successful and popular.

See this is the problem what you call OOTP strengths are in fact it's weaknesses.

Just think of the gained resources and streamlined code if there was no historical, fictional, or hugely customized universe?

Yes maybe the hardcore niche OOTP users would be angry. But perhaps those resources could improve the stagnant GUI. It needs to be modernized. And perhaps it gets on the attention of content creators and OOTP gains a huge user base which increases revenue.

This is exactly why I made this thread. So with FM picks the popular option time and time again. Even if it's niche hardcore fanbase gets upset. Because it gains them more popularity which gains more $$$ which leads to more improvement.

OOTP will probably continue to moderate increase but it might be to late to save the sinking ship. Writing is on the wall.

To make OOTP revolutionary better the old way of thinking Bout OOTP must be thrown out. If not expect the same game year and year out.

Again this has nothing to do if OOTP is enjoyable, fun or good. It's about being popular and opening OOTP up to the larger video game market.

Look at farming simulator? You think it's farmers buying it? Lmao. It's sim video games fans buying it cause it's a great modern title.

While OOTP only gets a subset of baseball fans. And it seems happy to stay that way. Instead of opening OOTP to the larger gaming community.

Gaming community larger then sports and entertainment.

The Show is limited to a subset of baseball fans and it’s management sucks. Sales? They’re good.

Ootp sales ? Up every year.

Demise predicted every year since v 6.5. Still here.

That, to me, is worth more than all of your speculation.

I know…. Look at blockbuster, AOL, etc. !!! Lol.

Ootp is adapting and improvising. It’s just not to your liking. It really is as simple as that. If thy had gone full fm in management someone lease would be in here making your arguments. Except it would be the demise of ootp because it was going down the management road.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Perhaps I shouldn't of spoken of demise but instead talked about stagnation and not being a popular game.

I am sure PT helped sales as people are addicted to daily $$$ fantasy leagues and micro transaction casual games.

The show isn't a management game but it is a popular game. OOTP is neither.

Sweed you defend OOTP year in and year out. And honestly you never want to hear criticism about OOTP.

The reason ootp isn't as popular as other sim management games is because it does not cater to the larger gaming community.

Yes OOTP is going anywhere. But it's also not getting huge or popular. That is stagnation plain and simple.

So yeah OOTP can always exist at what it's doing. But it will never catch fire and be on the level as other management games.

That is a decision by the devs to only allow OOTP to attract a niche market and not to try and attract larger gaming communities and big time content creators.

Defend OOTP all you want. But if you don't realize how small OOTP is, and how all the decisions around OOTP keep in small in scope then their is just no hope for OOTP to ever become something bigger and better.

[LansdowneSt]

So, I've spent an hour plus watching trailers and youtube tutorials and playthroughs on FM to try and better understand. I think what would be helpful is to take an aspect of FM that engages you and explain why and what that would look like in a baseball sim. I tried to focus on things you've called out as areas of improvement for your play preferences as I watched the videos.

Some of what I saw seemed tedious. I realize there is a morale and chemistry system in OOTP that you feel is underdeveloped but what I saw in FM seemed like a lot of micromanaging (though I assume some responsibilities can be assigned to the AI, no?). I hate HR stuff and pep talks and training up coworkers in real life. I don't need to do that for Jeter Downs and Triston Casas in my free time. I see some of the benefit in that you feel an investment in the team's growth and success if you "work" with them or talk to them about cutting down their strikeouts or maybe if a "cohesion" attribute develops and improves middle infielders as a DP combo plays together over the years like a Trammell-Whitaker combo but of your own making. So, I get the deeper the feeling of shaping the team that I think you are getting from FM... but, man, that seems like a lot of time doing the uninteresting parts of the GM job. I get that same type of "ownership" feeling watching a draft pick emerge over a ten-year sim to be a star and as I bend the budget to keep him - so on that kind of thing OOTP can deliver even if he is a pile of stats and ratings wrapped in a facegen with a made-up name.

I think we get both sides of the broad discussion by now, and I don't want another thread like the last one. I want to understand what in your mind a baseball sim is like in an FM construct. It can be incremental or as an end-goal. So as someone who is sincerely asking, please pick an aspect - just an aspect to start - and tell me how it ought to look, be it morale, chemistry, signings, personality, or something else.

I'm in 2022 Spring Training in your game (or back it up to the first day of the off-season). What am I doing differently...?

[kq76]

Someone sure can use a lot of words to say nothing. They must work in tv.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

So, I've spent an hour plus watching trailers and youtube tutorials and playthroughs on FM to try and better understand. I think what would be helpful is to take an aspect of FM that engages you and explain why and what that would look like in a baseball sim. I tried to focus on things you've called out as areas of improvement for your play preferences as I watched the videos.

Some of what I saw seemed tedious. I realize there is a morale and chemistry system in OOTP that you feel is underdeveloped but what I saw in FM seemed like a lot of micromanaging (though I assume some responsibilities can be assigned to the AI, no?). I hate HR stuff and pep talks and training up coworkers in real life. I don't need to do that for Jeter Downs and Triston Casas in my free time. I see some of the benefit in that you feel an investment in the team's growth and success if you "work" with them or talk to them about cutting down their strikeouts or maybe if a "cohesion" attribute develops and improves middle infielders as a DP combo plays together over the years like a Trammell-Whitaker combo but of your own making. So, I get the deeper the feeling of shaping the team that I think you are getting from FM... but, man, that seems like a lot of time doing the uninteresting parts of the GM job. I get that same type of "ownership" feeling watching a draft pick emerge over a ten-year sim to be a star and as I bend the budget to keep him - so on that kind of thing OOTP can deliver even if he is a pile of stats and ratings wrapped in a facegen with a made-up name.

I think we get both sides of the broad discussion by now, and I don't want another thread like the last one. I want to understand what in your mind a baseball sim is like in an FM construct. It can be incremental or as an end-goal. So as someone who is sincerely asking, please pick an aspect - just an aspect to start - and tell me how it ought to look, be it morale, chemistry, signings, personality, or something else.

I'm in 2022 Spring Training in your game (or back it up to the first day of the off-season). What am I doing differently...?

I will take a stab at it. The first huge difference is the GUI. FM and Motorsport GUI are modern, sleek, polished and optimized and look like products of the 2020s while OOTP GUI is atrocious, ugly, inconsistent, and completely unoptimized and looks like it is from 2000s.

Yes FM can have a ton of micromanaging while it also has automation. Just remember gaming fans of the genre want that deep micromanaging that is why they play the games. While casual football fans run more automated. It's also why you can tell the difference between gamers and football fans for the most part.

The next thing OOTP users have to understand is content creators. They drive the gaming market. They determine what is popular and what is old news.

Motorsport is 6 years old and still routinely gets content online and gets 10s of thousands to 100 thousand views. Which is basically more than all the views for OOTP well ever. It's a 6 year old game! About f1 racing. Not a popular selling sport. But it's a terrific game and gets content creators playing it because of the game quality and nothing to do with the sport.

Back to FM. The next biggest difference is the entire works is alive, interactive for us the user and dynamic. OOTP does not have universe interaction, it isn't dynamic.

Stadiums, owners, cities, fanbase, personality, chemistry, storylines etc in OOTP are static switches, stats or randomly generated. They have 0 user interaction.

Even all the customized features in OOTP aren't interactive and aren't game play features. There is no way to interact with owners or the MLB or the gms to change league rules. It's either random or the user has to manually do it. But no actual game play interaction from the user.

Personalities in OOTP are static. Don't change. The user or the universe can't interact with changing them. Bryce Harper has every bad trait in the game. He basically is top 5 MLB personality and no one at OOTpd has ever gone back and changed it even though he is s completely different personality as a Philly.

So not only aren't these things, in ootp, interactive they are also stale and outdated.

Even motorsport you can petition the owner and influence the rules of the league. Fully interactive for the user.

OOTP is a glorified stat generator. And I'm saying that as a good thing. It does stats better than anything. I just don't consider it much of a video game. It is very shallow and extremely easy no matter the settings for a real video game player.

OOTP caters to hardcore baseball stat nerds and hardcore baseball viewing fans. It absolutely does not cater to the video gaming community.

I've been a paid independent contractor and worked as alpha and beta tester on a dozen plus games in my video game experience. It is extremely obvious to see which crowd OOTP caters to and which it doesn't.

There is a reason ootp isn't popular on the much larger gaming community and has basically 0 content creators, well creators who are worth anything with large followings.

Management sims games are hugely popular with content creators. They cover various games in different genres. OOTP doesn't get covered cause it's not interesting in the gaming community.

Is Catering to a niche subset of baseball fans a smart play ? Or is catering to huge gaming world the smart play?

[osomaloso]

I usually play FM and OOTP at the same time , love me some FM

[Matt Arnold]

I wouldn't remove historical play or fictional play, since to me whatever game that was wouldn't be OOTP anymore. We may as well see how much you can mash the spacebar to see how far your guys hit the ball while we're at it.

I think the big point is that Football Manager essentially defined the genre. And I think the fact that they came along and made the type of game popular also had a huge impact in setting the market. The only reason OOTP exists is because Football Manager exists and Markus was a fan of it. I mean, why else would a baseball video game be made in Germany?

Speaking personally, when people ask who I work for and I say OOTP, nobody has heard of it. To describe it to anyone from Europe, I just say "it's Football Manager for Baseball" and like 90% of people know what I mean right away without me saying anything else. When I say that to an American, most of them stare at me with a blank face, and now I have to describe what the entire strategy/management genre of games is about.

I would love it if we could get the reach of Football Manager. But the fact that they basically set the stage, and set the stage with a sport that only really has had a marginal following in North America up until the last few years, means the NA market never truly caught on. Like take all the top sports in North America and look at what management games are out there for them. There aren't any super crazy selling management games for Football or Basketball out there, and those sports are just as popular in NA as baseball is. That's one thing that all the other top sim/strategy games have in common - Football (Soccer), Tennis, F1 Racing, even Cycling all are basically the top sports in Europe. That's not to say it will always be the case - the genre clearly has a lot of space to grow, which is why we are growing our team and continuing to push.

We're proud of what we're building. And we are always listening to the feedback on what can be improved. Nobody on the team thinks our game is perfect. But unfortunately we are still a small team, and there's only so many hours in the day. If we could get through everything I have on my task list for OOTP24, it would be a game that would blow the current one out of the water. But we'd also need a team the size of FM to pull that off, so we'll just do the best that we can to make the game better every year.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

OOTP is a glorified stat generator.

That’s all the game truly is. The league totals dictate everything about the game.

FM is light years above OOTP

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Is Catering to a niche subset of baseball fans a smart play ? Or is catering to huge gaming world the smart play?

If that is what they want to do an they are making money, then yes....it's their game and they have built a solid fanbase and believe it or not, they keep adding to it......if you are so against OOTP, then why are you here? Go play FM and enjoy all the bells and whistles that it offers. All these other games you keep brining up (Farming Sim, Pro Cycling Mgr for example) all come from bigger studios with more resources. I have worked in the software industry for 25 years as a tester, developer and in support and when you only have 3 to 5 dedicated software devs working on a program instead of 20+ like the bigger companies do, you will never achieve the same amount.

So while comparing FM and OOTP may not seem silly to you, they are not playing the same game in terms of resources. SI did start out small, all companies do....but not all get lucky and find someone to back them financially and can grow as fast and as large as SI did....would OOTPD like for that to happen? I am sure they would love it,, but fact are they are still a small team that work on the core game and it was not until recently they got the backing of a bigger company. So like Markus said in that other thread, give him the same number of resources and then you can talk.

I agree that there are things that I would like to see improve that have either not been touched or have made very little progress over the years, but does that take away from my enjoyment? No, not at all, I still buy the new version and get my 100's of hours in before the next version is out. I also play FM, but I tend to skip versions mainly because I am just not that into Soccer/Football, but I do enjoy some of the aspects that it has that OOTP does not. Why not just enjoy both games and enjoy the escape it brings that both game offer?

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

If that is what they want to do an they are making money, then yes....it's their game and they have built a solid fanbase and believe it or not, they keep adding to it......if you are so against OOTP, then why are you here? ......

Why are you so defensive? You have no personal investment in the game? I didnt insult your family so why so defensive?

When have I been against OOTP? I have said it is still fun and joyable and worth the $40. For me personally I only get a maximum of like 40 hours out of it but that is worth $40. Some video games only give you 15-20 hours for $60.

What I have done is voice legitimate criticism of OOTP. It is just some members of the community cannot handle OOTP being criticized.

And Again SI and these other games have made decisions to make their games popular with content creators and the larger video game community.

It has nothing to do with worldwide baseball vs football fans. There are more video game fans then both. And honestly FM is mostly a British Premiere thing. It does sell in other countries but the main selling point is the British fan/citizen.

OOTP does not cater to the video game fan so it will never be as big as other games. It has nothing to do with sports or baseball. Instead of acknowledging that people of the OOTP community wear it as some kind of badge of honor. Instead of leveling criticism at the game which could in turn increase ootp popularity thus increasing sales/staff.

I am not hear trashing the game. OOTP GUI needs major major modernization. That is facts.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

If that is what they want to do an they are making money, then yes....it's their game and they have built a solid fanbase and believe it or not, they keep adding to it......if you are so against OOTP, then why are you here? Go play FM and enjoy all the bells and whistles that it offers. All these other games you keep brining up (Farming Sim, Pro Cycling Mgr for example) all come from bigger studios with more resources. I have worked in the software industry for 25 years as a tester, developer and in support and when you only have 3 to 5 dedicated software devs working on a program instead of 20+ like the bigger companies do, you will never achieve the same amount.

So while comparing FM and OOTP may not seem silly to you, they are not playing the same game in terms of resources. SI did start out small, all companies do....but not all get lucky and find someone to back them financially and can grow as fast and as large as SI did....would OOTPD like for that to happen? I am sure they would love it,, but fact are they are still a small team that work on the core game and it was not until recently they got the backing of a bigger company. So like Markus said in that other thread, give him the same number of resources and then you can talk.

I agree that there are things that I would like to see improve that have either not been touched or have made very little progress over the years, but does that take away from my enjoyment? No, not at all, I still buy the new version and get my 100's of hours in before the next version is out. I also play FM, but I tend to skip versions mainly because I am just not that into Soccer/Football, but I do enjoy some of the aspects that it has that OOTP does not. Why not just enjoy both games and enjoy the escape it brings that both game offer?

OOTP was a small team before they sold the company. Now I’m not so sure they can use that defence anymore.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

I am not hear trashing the game. OOTP GUI needs major major modernization. That is facts.

As it turns out, that particular thing is not a fact, but an opinion.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

OOTP was a small team before they sold the company. Now I’m not so sure they can use that defence anymore.

This is false.....it is still Markus, Matt and maybe a couple others that actually work on the development of the core game. The new resources they acquired were mostly the graphics they use for the stadium models and any new manpower goes into Perfect Team.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

As it turns out, that particular thing is not a fact, but an opinion.

You seem to be taking this really personal. Why do defensive? You have nothing to do with OOTP or OOTPD. Why cant you give the game honest criticism? Why do you get offended and need to lash out when others give the game honest criticism?

Sorry no one in their right mind who has played video games would think the OOTP gui is modern.

A lot of the community here knows baseball and knows ootp but it is pretty easy observation to determine the vast majority of the forum contributors know very little about the video game world.

[AlpineSK]

While there isn't a full third party database like OOTP works off of for its historical database existing for FM if you go on the steam workshop it is pretty easy to find after market seasonal databases that you can load in and play. It's not "the complete history" but it's possible.

Also as someone who frequently plays FM (usually over 1,000 hours a year) and spends time in the community there aren't exactly people clammering for it over there.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Why are you so defensive? You have no personal investment in the game? I didnt insult your family so why so defensive?

When have I been against OOTP? I have said it is still fun and joyable and worth the $40. For me personally I only get a maximum of like 40 hours out of it but that is worth $40. Some video games only give you 15-20 hours for $60.

What I have done is voice legitimate criticism of OOTP. It is just some members of the community cannot handle OOTP being criticized.

And Again SI and these other games have made decisions to make their games popular with content creators and the larger video game community.

It has nothing to do with worldwide baseball vs football fans. There are more video game fans then both. And honestly FM is mostly a British Premiere thing. It does sell in other countries but the main selling point is the British fan/citizen.

OOTP does not cater to the video game fan so it will never be as big as other games. It has nothing to do with sports or baseball. Instead of acknowledging that people of the OOTP community wear it as some kind of badge of honor. Instead of leveling criticism at the game which could in turn increase ootp popularity thus increasing sales/staff.

I am not hear trashing the game. OOTP GUI needs major major modernization. That is facts.

Again, you cannot compare these two games......OOTP is not a video game, never has been...it is a baseball simulator, FM is more of a management sim that uses Soccer/Football as the thing you are managing. Soccer/Football will always be more popular that Baseball simply because it is played all over the world, Baseball is not. So yes, FM will be more popular for that reason, which in turn gives SI more $$ to use to grow and add to their game much faster than OOTP can.

I agree that there are areas that need updating, but the posts you have made recently just keep going in circles and have not given much more than just complaining that Markus said to compare FM and OOTP is silly. If there are things you would like to see change or improve, why not volunteer to help them out? Join the Beta team and give suggestions, help test out the features/fixes that they do each year and through out the year. I know for a fact that a lot of the stuff they add or change come from the feedback they receive from the Beta team.

And yes, I agree that there are some that come to the defense of the game way too strong and fast, but that shows that OOTP did something right in building a strong core of fans who will keep this game going for as long as Markus wants to keep working.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Since it’s just a database shouldn’t FM also do historical?

If we’re going to compare then we need to compare the whole package. You can’t pick FM’s strengths and then ignore it’s weakness. Fm outscores ootp in management, 10 to 1? ( you pick the numbers).
Historical? Fm is zero, no matter what score you give ootp:

I will 100% say that I value Historical Play in OOTP a lot. In fact, its one of the main ways that I've always played the game ever since I bought it. Its suffering though, as evidenced by my now locked thread about the trade AI in my 1989 Sim. So I will give you that. But if we're going to talk about the total package there are a few things that need to be brought up:

Manager / Player interactions - FM is light years ahead of OOTP here. My interactions with players effect not only that one player but the locker room atmosphere. Also players develop friendships and favorite teammates and coaches. Signing those players have an impact on player attitude and desire to play for your club. I rarely look at the Team Chemistry page in OOTP. Why? Because pretty much the only way that I can impact it is by winning.

Player traits and personalities - OOTP's personalities are static. FM? Dynamic. I can mentor players in FM which gives them more desirable traits that can positively or negatively effect them. Also certain players flat out won't fit well in your team and their development will stall. OOTP? You bring a "Prankster" into a room filled with serious players, you dont think peer pressure is going to wear off on them a bit? Come on.

The understanding of what a rivalry is - In FM rivalries mean something to fans and players. If you're ManU and you sign a Chelsea player its going to be met with skepticism from the people who matter. In OOTP I can play as the Red Sox and trade a package of players as the 2nd place team to the 1st place Yankees for their #1 starter and no one blinks an eye. OOTP treats the Yankees vs. the Red Sox the same as they would the Mariners vs. the Marlins.

Depth in Scouting - in OOTP i get a few sentences. in FM I get a true fog of war. I can establish a diverse group of scouts who look beyond "he's a good contact hitter." Scouting reports and scouting in general are far more deep. I've tried playing OOTP in Stats only mode and frankly I dont think things are nearly deep enough to make it enjoyable for me. While I havent done it, I feel that would be much more enjoyable of an undertaking with FM.

I could go deeper but I think this is good enough for now. There are some good aspects of OOTP. That's why I've been playing it for almost 20 years but frankly, so many sports management franchises have passed them by, and frankly, with the increased focus on PT, I dont see that stopping. And we can make excuses about budgets and team size but the needle on a lot of the GM aspects of the game needs to start moving a lot more than it has.