Game breaking immersion issue

[Syd Thrift]

OOTP doesn't have a "grittiness" rating. Is this even baseball?

[Pelican]

As Justice Potter Stewart said (about obscenity), hard to define; but I know it when I see it. Pete Rose, Dustin Pedroia, Chase Utley, Ty Cobb, Pete Reiser, to name a few. Take the guy with the dirty uniform.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Pelican

As Justice Potter Stewart said (about obscenity), hard to define; but I know it when I see it. Pete Rose, Dustin Pedroia, Chase Utley, Ty Cobb, Pete Reiser, to name a few. Take the guy with the dirty uniform.

Just an FYI, guys who get picked off first base have dirty uniforms.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by big17easy

just an fyi, guys who get picked off first base have dirty uniforms.

lol

[md40022]

But in the 1988 simulation I ran with the Cubs, both Rafael Palmiero and Davey Martinez did cause clubhouse waves by bangin' Ryno's wife..... so +1 for realism

[Syd Thrift]

That this thread has gone on for so long without discussing future Hall of Famer Dave Eckstein is a travesty.

[uruguru]

There was an old canard I heard long ago that great white players had grit, while great black players had natural talent. That saying used to really piss me off, but then again over decades of watching the sport I never heard a black player labeled as "gritty" so I could never disprove it.

Sorry for possibly ****ting in this post, but it seemed relevant!

[NoOne]

each personality trait has 201 varieties (0-200, if zero is used?)... multiplied by each other equates to a vaiety of personalities... some portion of those outcomes could be categorized as gritty :P

i know you are just joking.. but..

they may only slap a few different labels on it, but there's trillions of pesonalities possible in ootp.. (6 pesonality taits? 201^6 = .65,944,160,601,201.. not quite avagadro's number but still large, 64T if 200)

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by uruguru

There was an old canard I heard long ago that great white players had grit, while great black players had natural talent. That saying used to really piss me off, but then again over decades of watching the sport I never heard a black player labeled as "gritty" so I could never disprove it.

Sorry for possibly ****ting in this post, but it seemed relevant!

sounds like someone rationalizing some nonsense. blatant insecurity and fear causing some mental gymnastics, lol.

eiher one player is better than another or they are not... someone's grittiness, whatever that vague concept is supposed to convey, has very little to do with the equation... maybe a tie-breaker at best.

good luck getting 10 ppl to agee on the definition of "grittiness"

That's like giving creedance to "clutch" .... which would have to mean that "clutch" players underperform the other 95% of the time just to look good when it matters, Bwahahah. you cannot will youself to have greater coordination, and you cannot will youself to magically manifest more strength just because it's a playoff PA.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by NoOne

sounds like someone rationalizing some nonsense. blatant insecurity and fear causing some mental gymnastics, lol.

eiher one player is better than another or they are not... someone's grittiness, whatever that vague concept is supposed to convey, has very little to do with the equation... maybe a tie-breaker at best.

good luck getting 10 ppl to agee on the definition of "grittiness"

That's like giving creedance to "clutch" .... which would have to mean that "clutch" players underperform the other 95% of the time just to look good when it matters, Bwahahah. you cannot will youself to have greater coordination, and you cannot will youself to magically manifest more strength just because it's a playoff PA.

Current players have no grit. Everything they do is for a photo-op.

[bigdgp2]

Originally Posted by Pelican

As Justice Potter Stewart said (about obscenity), hard to define; but I know it when I see it. Pete Rose, Dustin Pedroia, Chase Utley, Ty Cobb, Pete Reiser, to name a few. Take the guy with the dirty uniform.

That's qwhite an observation this justice made.

[BarneyRubble]

Personality traits. I think OOTP does a good job.

I had Freddy Galvis for three years. He couldn't hit a lick, but he played a mean 2B and had 70+ RBI's at the bottom of the lineup all three years. Realistic? Who knows, but like one company says, it's in the game.

The saying "He's a ball player" doesn't exist by accident.

[MathBandit]

I do find that without being able to listen to the commentary teams while playing games out, I'm no longer able to tell which of the guys being paid to play baseball professionally are in fact "a professional hitter".

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by uruguru

There was an old canard I heard long ago that great white players had grit, while great black players had natural talent. That saying used to really piss me off, but then again over decades of watching the sport I never heard a black player labeled as "gritty" so I could never disprove it.

Sorry for possibly ****ting in this post, but it seemed relevant!

That’s a good point, to be slightly serious. I do remember hearing about the grit of guys like Mark Grave but not so much guys like Joey Cora or Julio Cruz or Omar Vizquel or Ozzie Smith. Fortunately if OOTP adds grit and randomizes it, we can live in a world where BIPOC are recognized to have grit.

Also, the grittiest thing on the planet, the Flyers mascot, knows no color (except orange) and is gritty AF.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

That’s a good point, to be slightly serious. I do remember hearing about the grit of guys like Mark Grave but not so much guys like Joey Cora or Julio Cruz or Omar Vizquel or Ozzie Smith. Fortunately if OOTP adds grit and randomizes it, we can live in a world where BIPOC are recognized to have grit.

Also, the grittiest thing on the planet, the Flyers mascot, knows no color (except orange) and is gritty AF.

I thought the grittiest thing on the planet was catfish? Stuff tastes like it's dropped in sand then fried.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I thought the grittiest thing on the planet was catfish? Stuff tastes like it's dropped in sand then fried.

false

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I thought the grittiest thing on the planet was catfish? Stuff tastes like it's dropped in sand then fried.

Not if you take the black skin out of the filet... that's why catfish has a bad taste... lazy cooks don't skin the fish properly.

Sorry for the digression.

Eddie "Stinky" Stanky in the 40s and 50s was a poor hitter, fielder, but he was a winner... he had grit.

[jg2977]

David Eckstein, Brett Gardner

[Ty Cobb]

Tommy Brookens

[NoOne]

grittiness..

it's a vague concept that ppl can use their imaginations to reinforce existing beliefs about a player while ignoring actual results, imho. can't back it up with statistical results or even prove it exists in any meaningful way otherwise.

kirk gibson would have served his teams better not injuring himself often trying to be 'gritty', for example. (think gritty overlaps with dumb far too much to assume it is a positive lol)

i think players put more into their training and physical preperation than in the past.. they can't smoke in the dugout and their bodies arent a broken down mess by age 30. they arent dissuaded fro weight-lifting etc.. that last thing more than any personality trait has a direct impact on results. (coupled with lowering mound and other things with direct causal impacts)

there's ebb and flow all over, but more competition generally means the trend will be positive on the long curve. competition is never in shortage. always a drive to find an advantage, even if we take a couple step backs in other apsects here or there.

what players have lost the most in this particular era is patience.. everything is in-the-moment (thoughts and emotions) and that's easy to take advantage of. that's why approaches at the plate are so much more unsophisticated now than 40 years ago. whereas, being an asshole or hardass doesn't make you better at baseball. The good players still have good approaches, but they are a small percent of total.

it's kinda funny... in my elementary years, i was always upset they didn't swing more (just a kid, lacked understanding of long-game and overall strategy etc)... and as an adult i'm wondering why these monkeys keep swinging at everything, LOL. so, they have a 4 y.o.'s sophistication up at the plate now.. swinging at anything they can reach..

no 2-strike approach.. keep swinging for the fences cause that'll get you paid better in long-run. motivating bad choices on the field, lol. it's a self-inflicted problem. this generation is dumber than the last... they just weren't taught as well or were too obstinate to be taught due larger cultural trends in society.