I wanna know how “Force Start/Use at Position” actually works

[brigdesatis]

Since OOTP 18 to 23 and GO, I made the manager take charge of the minor league roster, and ordered all the batters with poor defense as "1B" and "LF" in the Player strategy. That means I want to use "Use at Position", not "Force Start".

I have two questions.
1. Can batters with “Force Start/Use at Position” never be assigned “DH”?
2. If there are batters with “Force Start/Use at Position” as “LF”, the better batter who can play all of the outfields can't start "LF"?

If any of these are true, I'm running a very ineffective roster right now.

[WyattGOAT]

You can assign players as DH. For your second question, using force start/use at position will override any other player even if they have better ratings

[brigdesatis]

Originally Posted by WyattGOAT

You can assign players as DH. For your second question, using force start/use at position will override any other player even if they have better ratings

My first question was little bit wrong. My intend was, If there is the batter with Forced LF can be play as DH.

[MathBandit]

My understanding is, to use an MLB example, if you were overseeing the 2021 NY Mets and were tired of Dom Smith being played in the OF, so you went in and set him to "Force Start: 1B", the manager would no longer start Alonso at 1B because you are forcing him to play Dom Smith there.

[brigdesatis]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

My understanding is, to use an MLB example, if you were overseeing the 2021 NY Mets and were tired of Dom Smith being played in the OF, so you went in and set him to "Force Start: 1B", the manager would no longer start Alonso at 1B because you are forcing him to play Dom Smith there.

If i want to truly understand your opinion, I should check Dom Smith’s denfensive ratings. Thanks for reply tho.

[WyattGOAT]

Originally Posted by brigdesatis

My first question was little bit wrong. My intend was, If there is the batter with Forced LF can be play as DH.

I don't believe so. They will start almost every game in LF with the occasional day off

[brigdesatis]

So, looks like I’m running ineffective roster management. Is there any way to use batter just “Use at Position” with flexible DH assignment, and not “Force Start”?

[WyattGOAT]

Originally Posted by brigdesatis

So, looks like I’m running ineffective roster management. Is there any way to use batter just “Use at Position”, not “Force Start”?

I don't believe so. But if you don't want them starting anyway it won't matter a great deal where they're playing since they'll barely be on the field

[brigdesatis]

Originally Posted by WyattGOAT

I don't believe so. But if you don't want them starting anyway it won't matter a great deal where they're playing since they'll barely be on the field

I’m bit frustrating. For the first time, I was trying to play only GM mode and wanna assign 2B rookie who has 38 infield range to 1B. But this will not gonna work on only GM mode. ;(

[Syd Thrift]

IME Force Start is really only a thing you do to your minor leagues when you’re trying to train a player at a given position. Since you don’t really care about fielding you can live with bad ratings for a couple of months. I’d only use that setting on a player already in the majors if it was spring training or if my team was really, really bad, and even then I’d think twice.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

IME Force Start is really only a thing you do to your minor leagues when you’re trying to train a player at a given position. Since you don’t really care about fielding you can live with bad ratings for a couple of months. I’d only use that setting on a player already in the majors if it was spring training or if my team was really, really bad, and even then I’d think twice.

If I understand correctly, what OP wants is to say "Stop playing Joey Bagodonuts at [position], he's a LF" without saying "Start him at LF regardless of who else is there or if they're better than he is"

[KBLover]

Will a player with "force start" not be moved around when the manager shifts the lineup to give guys days off?

If so, I could see it for a "utility" infielder (he got some experience at 2B/SS and thus ratings there) that's really only got business playing on the corners to keep him from playing 2B/SS, especially if after giving time off, the "utility" infielder is the last person left.

I'd rather the manager stagger the time off for those two middle infielders and leave the "utility" guy at 3B.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

If I understand correctly, what OP wants is to say "Stop playing Joey Bagodonuts at [position], he's a LF" without saying "Start him at LF regardless of who else is there or if they're better than he is"

If you’re managing in the majors you do this by just not putting them as a reserve at those other positions. They won’t sub there either unless you stick them in a defensive substitute role, but, like, even if you go so far as to put nobody at a backup at a position the AI won’t use subs at all and if you’re simming through games it’ll stop and force you to put someone in if they’re literally too injured to play.

If you have a 4th OF and you only want them to play in LF, you do this by not putting them as backups in CF and RF. You should probably have backups at those positions because players get fatigued, but hey, you do you.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by KBLover

Will a player with "force start" not be moved around when the manager shifts the lineup to give guys days off?

If so, I could see it for a "utility" infielder (he got some experience at 2B/SS and thus ratings there) that's really only got business playing on the corners to keep him from playing 2B/SS, especially if after giving time off, the "utility" infielder is the last person left.

I'd rather the manager stagger the time off for those two middle infielders and leave the "utility" guy at 3B.

I’m about 99% positive that if you put “force start at x” on a player, the AI will only use him at that position. Also, IME if you set everyone to start until fatigued and you have multiple players fatigued on the same say with the same guy backing them up, the game will just go down the list, so if you have a utility infielder set to sub for all 3 positions he’ll sub for the 2B for the first game, then the 3B in the next, and finally the SS.

[tehsuigi]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

If I understand correctly, what OP wants is to say "Stop playing Joey Bagodonuts at [position], he's a LF" without saying "Start him at LF regardless of who else is there or if they're better than he is"

If you're not in Challenge Mode, just go into commissioner mode and edit Bagodonuts' experience at [position] to 0. That should scrub him from the depth chart after a day.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

IME Force Start is really only a thing you do to your minor leagues when you’re trying to train a player at a given position. Since you don’t really care about fielding you can live with bad ratings for a couple of months. I’d only use that setting on a player already in the majors if it was spring training or if my team was really, really bad, and even then I’d think twice.

I like to use it when i am running a fun what if league...i want certain players to 'get a chance' to prove they can play
I am not sure how fatigue factor in....i assume they would get rest if fatigued.

[MrDov]

Previously I've brought up something somewhat similar to what bidgesatus wants. I wish it was easier to get a prospect to split time between multiple positions in order to gain ability at those positions. Previously once a week in-game I would go through my minors and update the "Force Start" option for a dozen or more prospects that I wanted to see get time at multiple positions, but that proved to be quite tedious and I haven't done it in the last couple files I've played. I know there are Daily Lineups which could help, but also I don't care to figure out the full optimal lineup for my high A team, I just want to dictate playing time for a couple guys on that roster.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

IME Force Start is really only a thing you do to your minor leagues when you’re trying to train a player at a given position. Since you don’t really care about fielding you can live with bad ratings for a couple of months. I’d only use that setting on a player already in the majors if it was spring training or if my team was really, really bad, and even then I’d think twice.

I set my own rosters and let the AI make day to decisions. So I really don't need to use a force start in ST or if I want to move a guy. I have had a really loaded OF after letting the AI do my initial draft before. I moved a CF to 1B because he was like 50 in CF but could be up to 70 at 1B and didn't have anyone better at first base. Just putting him at 1B and setting the backup to if starter tired was enough to get him experience in ST and the regular season.

I also only use force start in the minors long enough for a player to develop a rating at the position that will the AI to put him there afterward if needed. After that I turn it off. I usually use it for the barely serviceable CF or SS to become a utility man that can play multiple positions. In my recent game since I lacked good 1B which is the first in OOTP that has ever happened, I have moved some marginal fielding 2B prospects to 1B since I have a young star at 2B and had a good hitting average to below rated OF I used as DH most of the time.

I have to be in bad shape with injuries to teach a guy a new position during the season but it has happened when I have good hitter who can potentially play a position that I move over rather than bringing up a guy who isn't as good to play that position. It hurts defensive efficiency but usually unless it is SS or CF the difference is marginal and the bat might make up for the lack of D for a while.

I am still not sure how much difference it makes that a guy has little experience at a position but the fielding ratings to be eventually good at a position. I know it makes some difference on the D but I haven't seen the fielding stats be completely terrible when a guy who has the ratings to play another position moves over. Granted some guys will learn much slower than others. I think it is intelligence and work ethic that determines how fast they learn. A lazy dumb guy takes a long time to learn a new position. A smart guy with high work ethic can learn real fast.

So I don't have a hard and fast rule to learning positions. If don't think I am a contender I will do what the Astros did with Bagwell and move him after ST instead of move him down because Caminitti is playing 3B.

[JerseyPirate]

Originally Posted by MrDov

Previously I've brought up something somewhat similar to what bidgesatus wants. I wish it was easier to get a prospect to split time between multiple positions in order to gain ability at those positions. Previously once a week in-game I would go through my minors and update the "Force Start" option for a dozen or more prospects that I wanted to see get time at multiple positions, but that proved to be quite tedious and I haven't done it in the last couple files I've played. I know there are Daily Lineups which could help, but also I don't care to figure out the full optimal lineup for my high A team, I just want to dictate playing time for a couple guys on that roster.

Here is what I do when I have a young prospect who can play multiple OF or IF positions. I force start him at 1 position at the start of the and then check back mid-season and usually switch his position because he's gained enough experience to almost max out at that position. I keep doing that until he gets to AA or AAA and he's now able to play any of those positions at that level. There is no reason to do it weekly at A or A+.

[BBGiovanni]

I think daily lineups (FKA "7day lineups") are the solution here? I don't use them but it seems granular enough to do what you want if you are willing to fiddle with it.