Design philosophies and the non-release of OOTP 23

[Chimaera]

Originally Posted by skepskepskep

You're referring to a vocal few, I represent the majority which mostly have given up on the game right now.

You really have to be taking the piss with this now. No one could possibly be lacking this much self-awareness.

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by Scott83

Your channel has 498 subscribers - hardly the majority that you claim to speak on behalf of.

The OOTP discord has 900 people online right now, no idea how many there are total... but he doesn't speak for many (any?) of us either.

[LegendKillerOne]

Originally Posted by skepskepskep

To call my quote whining is so disrespectful to the time and care I put into the words used. I'm also an affiliate streamer, literally promoting the product on an official level. I am the most active member of the Perfect Team community on Twitch, often streaming 5 days a week.

I've played the game (Perfect Team) since 20 released and bought back to 19. The game you are talking about is the game of the past and I don't care about it at all. I am the present and the future and you'll have to get used to this and understand that it is best for your game too that this be the reality.

You are more than welcome to just not buy the game.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by LegendKillerOne

You are more than welcome to just not buy the game.

I don't know if he shared his "expectations" here or just on discord, but what he actually thinks is a fair recompense for this is that everyone who has already purchased the game be refunded and allowed to keep the game for free.

I'm sure given he's so worried about and knowledgeable about the future of the game, he's going through and worked out the numbers of how it would affect the financial viability of OOTP Devs to refund all pre-orders and launch day purchases of their annual game release and allow those customers to not pay for 2022.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by silvam14

wow, amazing thread

Feels like the old days around here when some folks would complain around every release. Sigh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[skepskepskep]

Originally Posted by Chimaera

You really have to be taking the piss with this now. No one could possibly be lacking this much self-awareness.

I'm painfully self-aware and went through an extensive self-reflection on whether I placed more value on drops or doing the right thing. Turns out I made the right choice.

[skepskepskep]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I don't know if he shared his "expectations" here or just on discord, but what he actually thinks is a fair recompense for this is that everyone who has already purchased the game be refunded and allowed to keep the game for free.

Of course. It is the only ethical recourse for a screw up this monumental. Preorders should get refunded and keep their license.

[oomm]

An overhaul of the GUI and information presentation would

1. Send a shockwave of freshness throughout the community that would ripple across many more years of releases.

2. Solve most of the claim OOTP is "too hard for noobies" and "we need tutorials".

3. Introduce OOTP to a more recent century of software standards.

A game that offers as much as OOTP AND is user-friendly would boost AT LEAST the curious look-see buyers, and may keep many of them around. But look-sees likely feel the navigation issues are simply too many. Unpredictable/unfamiliar/unintuitive navigation/presentation = barrier to further usage.

However, with this said, the XML and CVS files DO allow for fantastic customization. Yet long hanging fruit will not be in favour of dicking around with XML and text files.... so pants it is.

[skepskepskep]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I believe there are some provocative, and to my mind not entirely invalid, philosophical arguments in your initial post to start this thread, even if my visceral reaction is to hope that you are mostly wrong.

But statements like the one above undercut any hopes you might have of starting an actual useful dialogue rather than just poking a hornet's nest. This sort of rhetoric also belies the very first sentence of your original post in this thread: "I respect and admire the history of OOTP as an offline baseball simulation tool."
When you dismiss the core game in such a disrespectful tone as you have above, you also disrespect the developers and a great many of your fellow gamers.

For someone who is a self-described promoter and ambassador of the game, the further you dug yourself in as this thread went on, the more I had to think of the old saying: with friends like this, who needs enemies?

You're also not wrong, I went a little overboard reacting to the nerds who think I spilled their juice. I have a low tolerance for fools and I'm not perfect, but I am right about the flaw in design philosophy at work here.

I should note that I made EXTENSIVE in-house criticisms in the affiliates discord with basically no response before going public. I never should have gone public because the company should have handled my very valid concerns respectfully and professionally (they didn't).

[MathBandit]

I realize that I was wrong about you, skepskepskep.

You said you were an ambassador to the game, and I laughed. Thinking about it more, I think you truly are remarkable and have managed to do something for this community that I never thought possible.

This community has long been divided among many lines. Forummers vs Discord vs Reddit vs Twitter. Offline play vs PT. Fastspring vs Steam. People happy with the release vs people mad at the release. People happy with the OOTP23 changes vs people unhappy with the OOTP23 changes.

You've managed to unite each and every one of those people onto the same side. And that truly is a feat worth celebrating.

[jameslacy8]

They could remove Perfect Team and it wouldn't bother me none. I play it some. I have been on OOTP for at least 15 years, way before PT, and that is where the game really shines. In fact, too much focus has gone to PT imo almost to the detriment of other areas of the game that need updating, like the financial systems and contracts. Online play to me with OOTP is leagues with human GMs running each team in the league, not PT.

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by jameslacy8

They could remove Perfect Team and it wouldn't bother me none. I play it some. I have been on OOTP for at least 15 years, way before PT, and that is where the game really shines. In fact, too much focus has gone to PT imo almost to the detriment of other areas of the game that need updating, like the financial systems and contracts. Online play to me with OOTP is leagues with human GMs running each team in the league, not PT.

You know that humans also run PT teams, right?

[spartacus007]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

This community has long been divided among many lines. Forummers vs Discord vs Reddit vs Twitter. Offline play vs PT. Fastspring vs Steam. People happy with the release vs people mad at the release. People happy with the OOTP23 changes vs people unhappy with the OOTP23 changes.

You've managed to unite each and every one of those people onto the same side. And that truly is a feat worth celebrating.

Hah! too true.

It's very clear to me the team really cares about the game and cares about the people who play it. They're always adding or improving features that might not make the sales sheet but genuinely make the game better. That shows love of the game.

Does the dev team always make the exact decisions I would make? Of course not. Nobody agrees with everyone on everything, as these forums show. But I'll take OOTP over any other development company I've bought games from.

[BirdWatcher]

Part of what troubles me about much of this is the binary thinking that it seems to exhibit (perhaps an odd choice of words given the technology).

As a more traditional OOTP gamer who has never played PT, but also hasn't been playing the game nearly as long as many around here (my first version purchased and played was 18, if I am remembering correctly), I am as frustrated by those traditional/franchise/core game, OOTP'ers who see PT as the start of OOTP Armageddon as I am by skepskepskep taking nearly the opposite approach and denigrating the core game and those who value it above PT.

What is this human impulse to make everything into an either/or question? Perhaps it will prove overly ambitious of Markus and company to have ventured into this new (and, let's not fool ourselves, more forward thinking) mode of OOTP game play while also remaining committed to continuous improvement of the core game. But should they not try? It is imperative, for all of us as humans, to continue to evolve and grow if we don't wish to simply shrivel up and die, or became irrelevant. Such is also true of OOTP. But that doesn't mean that the company needs to abandon what defined it to begin with, what made it great and brought it to this stage of its evolution.

So when someone like skepskepskep makes the bold statements that they have here, statements that seem to speak to the greatest fears of that portion of veteran OOTP'ers who were already convinced that PT was going to ruin OOTP, taking away all of the oxygen from the core game, this just further perpetuates this binary, us versus them, either/or, mentality.

And I, for one, don't see any benefit in that for any of us.

I am just happy that Markus and the rest of the OOTP team continue to resist such reductive thinking.

[jameslacy8]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

You know that humans also run PT teams, right?

Really?! Going to have to rethink this then

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by jameslacy8

Really?! Going to have to rethink this then

I can't tell if you're joking...? But yeah PT is all human run teams (and awesome).

Come join us!

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by skepskepskep

If you play Perfect Team tournaments, you're very familiar with waiting for team logos to load and it has nothing to do with the quality of my computer.

I don't, never did never will... I buy the game every years since 2007 because it's a realist historical baseball simulation game. I really don't care about playing against people who bought their way to the top, in my book it's pathetic and all that "pay to win" and "skin buying" is the reason why MOST companies doesn't care about what they released (they just want you to spend extra cash on things who should be free when you pay 65$ and more for a game) and MOST game are garbage.

[spacer15415]

Originally Posted by skepskepskep

I am the present and the future and you'll have to get used to this and understand that it is best for your game too that this be the reality.

Oh my!

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by skepskepskep

I'm also an affiliate streamer, literally promoting the product on an official level. I am the most active member of the Perfect Team community on Twitch, often streaming 5 days a week.

Who cares? Seriously...

A lot of people here do a lot of stuff for the game and you know what... they aren't paid to do it like you certainly are on Twitch (OK you probably don't rake the cash like the girls do but this isn't volunteer works) so again who cares about that flexing.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by skepskepskep

This is indicative of the problem. You don't even realize what your game is to your userbase or potential future userbase.

This is the most arrogant thing I have read here in a long time... so you think you know the game more than the guy who created the game