Status update & Perfect Team delay news

[ABC Commish]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This x 1,000 People have said what is the point of complaining? To vent. That's it. It's a message board, people are upset. If it's your opinion they've overdone it, that's ok. But I'd venture to guess if I took a video camera and followed you around that you would have an inappropriate outburst at something I wouldn't even be bothered by in the slightest. You could do the same for me.

Let them vent. Let the people who love the game and don't care say they love the game and that they don't care. There isn't any reason for an attack on either side of this.

My apologies if I'm wrong about your response, but it appears you have missed the entire point of my post. I'm agreeing that people should vent. I'm also agreeing that people should disagree and have a differing opinion than the vent. My post was to express the disappointment regarding those posts that attack the venters and question their age/maturity level, etc. No need to say something like you must be 9 yrs old or something similar. Just post the reasons you disagree without attacking was what I posted about

[ABC Commish]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Absolutely, and while OOTP Dev has grown over the last several years, it is still a relatively small shop with a niche community. Don't be surprised if the long time followers of the game rally around Markus and co after such an extraordinary track record when it comes to negative opinions and carrying on.

Nothing comes as a surprise, that's for sure. There will be those expressing their disappointment, those rallying around Marcus, etc. And that's the way it has been and should be. And though I'm disappointed in the personal attacks, unfortunately they are not a surprise either.

[Drivehud.com]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

First of all I was speaking to another poster, not you - but if we're going to start comparing experience, I had 42 years in IT. It almost sounds like your trying to give us a "Software Development 101" course. After 40+ years in IT I can tell you there is no way humanly possible to project every possible problem in a software release unless you have an unlimited budget and development staff and OOTP has neither.

Those are the facts, and if you've been in the business 30 years you know that and are ignoring it. OOTP went through a merger, appears to have been forced to change backend providers, delayed the release of the game a month, and STILL ran into server stress issues.

For a few customers to simply ignore those realities and lay the blame on the staff for some fictional expectation of perfection is simply something I can't get my head around.

Disappointed?, yes. Frustrated?, of course. Angry even?, understandable. But don't lay blame where no blame exists. For 20+ years these guys have ALWAYS came through and I expect nothing less this time.

Give them a break.

Respectfully, you're an IT guy, this is not your lane. IT guys are not known for their excellence in development (or even developers at all). So not sure why you're acting like it is.

Again, personally, I'm not frustrated or disappointed. My comment was calling out BS. What has happened here is 100% avoidable, and I stand by that comment.

The reason this is all happening is because OOTP as a company is going through a growth period, and there's likely a lot of people in positions that are in a bit over their heads. It's extremely obvious, and I'm not going to air dirty laundry on what that is.

The release was already delayed a month + avoidable server load issues. The real test here is if OOTP as a company will learn from it's mistakes or not. Like you said, it's a niche smaller company, and they need people who understand how to scale properly in order to continue to grow, and meet their customers needs.

[nutt]

Let me see if I can be the voice of reason here.....

For those that claim to have been around awhile, where were you when Perfect Team debuted and it's debut was delayed for weeks? There was no kickback or frustration. Maybe one or two (kinda seems on par with this now).

This is one thing that has an issue and not causing the game to be unplayable or a broken release. This is not Madden 22 or the horrible Star Wars release.

If the delay of a month to start the season was an issue, also remember a few years back, the release was late May.

If the delay of another week for Perfect Team is a dealbreaker, contact customer support and ask for a refund.

Also... I try to avoid Discord servers at all costs because of the negativity and fanboy groups they have. The ONLY time I use Discord is for CFBRevamped. The OOTP subreddit seems fine with no angry people about it.

As someone who's worked in IT for ten years and have interacted with software developers, ncap summed it up perfectly a few posts back.

Originally Posted by ncap99

I do work in software development. Stuff like this happens to every company sometimes. If I had to guess as to why the beta didn't start sooner I would say because the software wasn't ready for beta sooner. If I had to guess as to why some of the more obvious bugs were present in the initial beta version, I'd guess that they were well aware of them and had planned fixes already in the works but determined that they weren't showstoppers and proceeding with the beta was beneficial.

Imagine in any of your jobs if you were asked to plan out your next week/month/year of work. Go back after that time period and see how accurate you were. Throw in a major change or two (like switching backend authentication providers). See how accurate your estimates are after that. My guess is they had preplanned work almost all the way to release day. It does not take much to throw software development timelines off.

I think it is possible to be upset and still understanding. We all want to play because we like the game and it is frustrating we can't. But what is far worse is for a company to bend to that pressure and release a product with major issues like CyperPunk 2077 did for example.

OOTP23 is not in the same category of Madden, CyberPunk, or Star Wars. Those were launches that were catastrophic failures. This is only a setback.

[HRBaker]

To be honest, I deleted this post because it is a waste of time to argue about who is to blame. I will wait for PT and enjoy it when I have it.

[Kushiel]

Better than my wife's soap operas.

[jd200600]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

Better than my wife's soap operas.

Well, it involves baseball, so yeah. Lol!

[md40022]

Well, we're officially at the point in the thread where the computer and software geeks start arguing over credentials haha. Nice.

I don't play PT, so I really don't have a horse in the race here. Honestly though, this thread has been entertaining to keep up with over the course of my work day. So, thank you to all involved haha.

Let me just say though, as someone with 0 experience in any area of software, development or IT....... had you rerouted the encryptions past the mainframe at a speed of 1.21 gigawatts, this whole thing could have been avoided.

[JWW]

Let me add my thanks for the entertainment value. I generally just lurk but want to say that this has been an entertaining as some of "best" Steam forum posts I've seen lately, that is, for entertainment value.

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by nutt

Also... I try to avoid Discord servers at all costs because of the negativity and fanboy groups they have. The ONLY time I use Discord is for CFBRevamped. The OOTP subreddit seems fine with no angry people about it.

The negativity in this thread alone blows Discord out of the water. You want to talk about fanboy groups... scroll up a bit.

[nutt]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

The negativity in this thread alone blows Discord out of the water. You want to talk about fanboy groups... scroll up a bit.

Are you implying people defending the development team or the two that are totally out of line?

I get venting, it's natural. But temper tantrums in 2022 on any form of social media, whether it be a message board, reddit, or a gaming server? That's just unnecessary.

[Drivehud.com]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I don't feel required to give you a rundown of my years experience in Engineering, Automation, Development and Software Deployment. It shouldn't necessary. Nor should it be necessary to nitpick each other's history as to whether we "qualify" to have an opinion, so I will leave that as well.

The point is, and I think we agree on this at least, OOTP is not a large, corporate entity with unlimited funds nor 500 company talent. In addition, they now have to somewhat answer to COM2US as to various decisions, limiting their options.

What I have railed about mostly in this string of posts (and I still stand by this) is we are accomplishing nothing by railing against a team that has published a successful product for over 20 years. Of course things could be better, but they simply do not have the resources available to always do things perfectly (as if that were possible). In 20 years I think I have seen them late on release 3 times. No matter how you look at it, that's a good record.

And I honestly believe the loudest criticisms are coming from a minority of customers - but that will be proven one way or another in a couple months when we can measure the success of V23.

I have zero desire to argue with you about this. This isn't your lane or your field of expertise if you're an "IT guy".

I get that there's going to be a lot of homers defending them, and I respect that. I'm not even criticizing them, beyond the fact of calling out the homers that are defending them. I think if OOTP does an honest assessment of their situation, they know this was fully avoidable, and will take full responsibility.

The bottom line is, will they learn and grow from this experience as a company.

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by nutt

Are you implying people defending the development team or the two that are totally out of line?

I get venting, it's natural. But temper tantrums in 2022 on any form of social media, whether it be a message board, reddit, or a gaming server? That's just unnecessary.

The difference is the people being critical of the game and whatever development deficiencies may or may not have occurred recently are critiquing the game and the company. The people "defending" the development team are critiquing the customers; while simultaneously dismissing the "tantrums" of unhappy customers because OOTP is awesome and has been for 20 years.

But you're probably right... all the toxic fanboys are on Discord.

[Drivehud.com]

Originally Posted by md40022

Well, we're officially at the point in the thread where the computer and software geeks start arguing over credentials haha. Nice.

I don't play PT, so I really don't have a horse in the race here. Honestly though, this thread has been entertaining to keep up with over the course of my work day. So, thank you to all involved haha.

Let me just say though, as someone with 0 experience in any area of software, development or IT....... had you rerouted the encryptions past the mainframe at a speed of 1.21 gigawatts, this whole thing could have been avoided.

Bro, I'm sorry to break this news to you, but if you're playing this game, you're a geek too.

[Syd Thrift]

If they’re not using AWS now, and I’m not saying it’s not a great idea to move, it might be a pretty large undertaking. The “lift and shift” method a lot of businesses do at first usually results in things not working quite as well, albeit at potentially lower costs and with higher a availability. It also requires some specific knowledge of AWS and that to be implemented at an architectural level, which they might not have the wherewithal to do right now, I don’t know.

And I’m sorry but I’ve worked for Fortune 500 companies as well - I think the company I’m at currently is a Fortune 100 - and this kind of strutting is unnecessary. Robust load testing can miss things. It’s not even necessarily a load issue per se that could have caused the failures. The devs certainly aren’t going to broach that issue with the public. But as I said before and I’ll say again, nothing stands in for actual people using the product, and that stands whether you have proper load and pen testing or a good QA department or proper code review procedures or a strong commitment to TDD or all of the above. Stuff happens, and the single largest point of failure is the first time your product is exposed to the general public.

That said, it’s entirely possible they didn’t do the right kind of load testing or cut corners or whatever as well. I have no idea and frankly only the dev team knows. The existence of issues that were only discovered after a normal amount of people used the servers is not really proof one way or the other, and it’s a little dumb to chide them for things they may or may not have done.

[nutt]

Originally Posted by md40022

Well, we're officially at the point in the thread where the computer and software geeks start arguing over credentials haha. Nice.

I don't play PT, so I really don't have a horse in the race here. Honestly though, this thread has been entertaining to keep up with over the course of my work day. So, thank you to all involved haha.

Let me just say though, as someone with 0 experience in any area of software, development or IT....... had you rerouted the encryptions past the mainframe at a speed of 1.21 gigawatts, this whole thing could have been avoided.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

If they’re not using AWS now, and I’m not saying it’s not a great idea to move, it might be a pretty large undertaking. The “lift and shift” method a lot of businesses do at first usually results in things not working quite as well, albeit at potentially lower costs and with higher a availability. It also requires some specific knowledge of AWS and that to be implemented at an architectural level, which they might not have the wherewithal to do right now, I don’t know.

And I’m sorry but I’ve worked for Fortune 500 companies as well - I think the company I’m at currently is a Fortune 100 - and this kind of strutting is unnecessary. Robust load testing can miss things. It’s not even necessarily a load issue per se that could have caused the failures. The devs certainly aren’t going to broach that issue with the public. But as I said before and I’ll say again, nothing stands in for actual people using the product, and that stands whether you have proper load and pen testing or a good QA department or proper code review procedures or a strong commitment to TDD or all of the above. Stuff happens, and the single largest point of failure is the first time your product is exposed to the general public.

That said, it’s entirely possible they didn’t do the right kind of load testing or cut corners or whatever as well. I have no idea and frankly only the dev team knows. The existence of issues that were only discovered after a normal amount of people used the servers is not really proof one way or the other, and it’s a little dumb to chide them for things they may or may not have done.

Ok that’s enough. I feel like I’m at work with all of this talk load tests and pen tests. Time for a. Break


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PyreDruid]

Oh I hate when bugs like that show up at the last minute.

Delay for PT is unfortunate, but the base game has been *incredible* so far (I'm going to be shopping players for a week now). Great work once again.

Appreciate all the work than went into it again, and I'm sure PT will be great when it's running.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Drivehud.com

Bro, I'm sorry to break this news to you, but if you're playing this game, you're a geek too.

Bro, I'm sorry to break this news to you, but "computer geek" is just a term. It's not meant as an insult. I didn't create it and it's been around since forever. It was a joke.... So, calm down.

We're all sitting on a message forum talking about the release of a PC game.... yeah, we all fit the bill. I know.

[Syd Thrift]

I ain’t no geek like you NERDS I talk to WOMEN and I know what the OUTSIDE is