Could really use some help figuring this out:(

[BluKing]

I have asked this before and gotten zero answers. I am using a feeder league draft for stats in my save. Every year there are like 500 1b and only 50 ss and cf. If possible, how do I get more equal position distribution? I could add more feeder teams but then there would be 1k 1b free agents in like two years and still a lack of SS and CF.

More context: 25 rd draft, 50 teams. 30 player active, 6 man rotation, 7 relievers, 14 position players(I have played with this number set to the highest but there was a crazy amount of 1b and free agents). Using DH.

Draft Pool numbers for this year filtered by position:

1694 total players…..seems good.

42 ss…….seems low asf

37 cf…….wtf

211 1b……sigh

624 total pitchers

1134 total batters

Is this normal? When I sim into the future, there eventually becomes a huge shortage of ss and cf and an overabundance of LF and especially 1B.

[BirdWatcher]

So, in the spirit of giving you some sort of answer to your question, and acknowledging that you have expressed frustration elsewhere with not getting a response, I'm afraid I just don't have a good answer for you.

In my fictional league I have not experienced any concerning oddness with draft pools, other than some year to year variances which tend to balance themselves out over time. I do use feeder leagues- College, JuCo, and High School.

Now, in general I think it is true in both real life as in OOTP that there will always be fewer players entering drafts who are legitimate prospects at premium positions like shortstop and catcher and center field and second base, etc. That's part of what makes them premium positions.

But as I do not sim and play out all of the games for my team, I am only now in the early stages of the 22nd year of the league, so I can't promise I won't run into problems in time.

Hopefully someone who has a better answer for you than I do will respond and offer actual assistance.

Edit: I should probably add too that some of the people who might be in the best position to answer your questions- Developers and beta testing team members- are pretty darn busy right now so it might be a tough time in the cycle of development to get as many answers as you might expect at another time of year.

[Syd Thrift]

Yeah I think the chief issue with feeder leagues is that in order to keep the talent levels from being too flat, you have to use far fewer schools than have RL baseball programs. I mean, there’s nothing close to reality for high schools at all but even with college there are what, 325 Division I schools alone?


In high school, any kid who profiles to be draftable at all and is a hitter either plus shortstop or is left handed. There are veeeery few exceptions to that (other than catchers). Even in college, the super athletic kids are going to all be shortstops and center fielders, with a few odd guys playing other positions who probably profile into 1B/LF/DH types. In feeder leagues, all these positions are represented equally.

In real life an awful lot of drafting a player is getting a guy whose bat you like and who you think you can turn into a capable SS or, failing that, one of the lesser positions. Chris Taylor is a big relatively recent example of that: the Mariners tried him as a regular shortstop, he was absolutely brutal in the field, and so they gave him to the Dodgers who now use him as a full-time… everything. But that’s only an extreme example. Basically everyone who plays 2B in the majors is a converted SS, along with almost all 3B and a fair few outfielders as well (hell, Mike Morse came up as a shortstop).

To really and truly make a “feeder league” situation work, you’d need thousands of high schools with like 1 or 2 MiL quality players on them at most, plus hundreds of colleges and junior colleges. That’s the only way I see to have that many projectable shortstops and center fielders. The game simply isn’t built to do that. If you actually have that many teams, the leaguewide talent level will go sky high and all your players will look about the same. And, well, that’s why I don’t use them.

[BirdWatcher]

I guess for me though the bigger question is whether enough quality players at each position make it to my major leagues. I don't really care if there is an overabundance of first baseman trying to hang on- and eventually falling away- in the minor league systems. To me that is just another way to say that players with limited skills will be selected out over time.
As long as there are enough quality players who can be major leaguers at every position, that is all I care about. And how one defines quality is also very different at positions like catcher and shortstop than in left field or at first base.

Again, I'm only 22 years into my fictional league so perhaps I am overly optimistic and just haven't yet recognized the impending disaster coming down the road. But looking at my current draft pool for the amateur draft that is coming up soon in my W.P. Kinsella League, the ratios look pretty similar to what the OP describes above, but among the top prospects in the draft are shortstops and center fielders and second baseman and, okay, not so much catchers. But that's another story. And sure they won't all stick at their premium positions, but it does strike me that a larger percentage of the best players in the draft have these premium positions as their primary position for now, out of proportion with the share of the total number of players these positions occupy.

And, in my fictional universe at least, it isn't like the only place that shortstops and center fielders, etc. come from is the amateur draft. I certainly see international scouting discoveries and international free agents turning into starters, and even stars, at these positions.

[USF]

Originally Posted by BluKing

I have asked this before and gotten zero answers. I am using a feeder league draft for stats in my save. Every year there are like 500 1b and only 50 ss and cf. If possible, how do I get more equal position distribution? I could add more feeder teams but then there would be 1k 1b free agents in like two years and still a lack of SS and CF.

More context: 25 rd draft, 50 teams. 30 player active, 6 man rotation, 7 relievers, 14 position players(I have played with this number set to the highest but there was a crazy amount of 1b and free agents). Using DH.

Draft Pool numbers for this year filtered by position:

1694 total players…..seems good.

42 ss…….seems low asf

37 cf…….wtf

211 1b……sigh

624 total pitchers

1134 total batters

Is this normal? When I sim into the future, there eventually becomes a huge shortage of ss and cf and an overabundance of LF and especially 1B.

I took a look at my online draft league which is entering Season #41.

We have 1032 Players
217 INF
131 OF
254 SP
340 RP
90 C
Remember some players are listed multiple times if they play multiple positions.
The above break-outs are:
94 1B
82 2B
76 3B
76 SS
103 LF
53 CF
85 RF
0 DH

So something seems off in your feeder settings and/or your age restrictions.

I would always expect more 1B/LF in a draft.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I guess for me though the bigger question is whether enough quality players at each position make it to my major leagues. I don't really care if there is an overabundance of first baseman trying to hang on- and eventually falling away- in the minor league systems. To me that is just another way to say that players with limited skills will be selected out over time.
As long as there are enough quality players who can be major leaguers at every position, that is all I care about. And how one defines quality is also very different at positions like catcher and shortstop than in left field or at first base.

Again, I'm only 22 years into my fictional league so perhaps I am overly optimistic and just haven't yet recognized the impending disaster coming down the road. But looking at my current draft pool for the amateur draft that is coming up soon in my W.P. Kinsella League, the ratios look pretty similar to what the OP describes above, but among the top prospects in the draft are shortstops and center fielders and second baseman and, okay, not so much catchers. But that's another story. And sure they won't all stick at their premium positions, but it does strike me that a larger percentage of the best players in the draft have these premium positions as their primary position for now, out of proportion with the share of the total number of players these positions occupy.

And, in my fictional universe at least, it isn't like the only place that shortstops and center fielders, etc. come from is the amateur draft. I certainly see international scouting discoveries and international free agents turning into starters, and even stars, at these positions.

It’s still an issue because especially as you get into the high minors and majors, you’re going to find that first base is basically a giant trash heap of guys who’ve moved all the way down the defensive spectrum, lefties who don’t have the arm to play in the outfield, and every now and then a guy who just so happens to be a bona fide athlete who happens to play first base (John Olerud, who was a pitcher in college, comes to mind). Even players who play first in the low minors are often there just to get them in the lineup and even if you have guys washing out, it still looks very different from how the actual draft works.

And sure, you know, play your own way, and of course lots of guys can come from unnamed international leagues (although there too I’m pretty sure that the younger players are over represented at short) and indie leagues. If you want to turn those way up, go ahead. All I’m saying is, there really isn’t a way to make feeder leagues look like the actual draft and if you are bothered by the distribution the best advice I can give is to not use them.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

It’s still an issue because especially as you get into the high minors and majors, you’re going to find that first base is basically a giant trash heap of guys who’ve moved all the way down the defensive spectrum, lefties who don’t have the arm to play in the outfield, and every now and then a guy who just so happens to be a bona fide athlete who happens to play first base (John Olerud, who was a pitcher in college, comes to mind). Even players who play first in the low minors are often there just to get them in the lineup and even if you have guys washing out, it still looks very different from how the actual draft works.

And sure, you know, play your own way, and of course lots of guys can come from unnamed international leagues (although there too I’m pretty sure that the younger players are over represented at short) and indie leagues. If you want to turn those way up, go ahead. All I’m saying is, there really isn’t a way to make feeder leagues look like the actual draft and if you are bothered by the distribution the best advice I can give is to not use them.

Fair enough.
But I'm happy with the results so far in my W.P. Kinsella League and if and when the time comes that I'm not, well, I'll cross that bridge (or burn it down) when I come to it.
And given how slowly I move into the future with this league maybe before that happens there will have been changes in the game that mitigate the problems.
The one thing that I have found thus far is that most of the pitfalls that I have read about here over the years have never befallen me, or have never been anywhere near save breaking for me. Maybe I'm just the lucky sort, but my trust the program approach has thus far served me well.

[Rain King]

When you aren't using the feeder leagues, the game creates players to draft similar to how they are listed in real MLB drafts.

However, even though there are a TON of guys listed as SS's that get drafted almost none of them stick at SS as they move up the ladder.

What is happening in a feeder league is that the position spectrum is getting applied before the draft. So, since you only have X number of feeder teams you are only going to have X number of starting SS's and any other infielders are either going to be starting at other positions or looked at as utility guys.

I think if you instead looked for the number of guys who have the ability to play SS and not just at their primary position you would probably find a lot more.

[Sweed]

The reason I did not answer is I thought my answer would not be what you were looking for. I did use feeders for many versions but v21, I think(?), introduced OOTP created draft classes with realistic stats for both HS and college players. IE More guys that dominated statistically (men among boys phenomenon) than you will see in a feeder league.

Add in the benefits of saving the disk space required to save those feeders along with created draft classes being "no maintenance required".

So my suggestion would be to go with the OOTP created drafts. Which could lead back to my opening sentence, "not what you are looking for". But, there is is