New 3d visuals

[PSUColonel]

I am not saying some sort of representation of what’s happening is a bad thing, it just feels like things are moving in a different direction than the original “theme” of OOTP.

If the graphics team and the main development team don’t share resources (which I do believe is the case) I’m just wondering why we haven’t been seeing a lot of GM stuff type improvements?

Is OOTP still the best in its genre? (baseball simulation) you bet it is…but without any serious competition things can become stagnant…and that’s just the nature of business I’m afraid. No need to go build a better mouse trap so to speak.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am not saying some sort of representation of what’s happening is a bad thing, it just feels like things are moving in a different direction than the original “theme” of OOTP.

If the graphics team and the main development team don’t share resources (which I do believe is the case) I’m just wondering why we haven’t been seeing a lot of GM stuff type improvements?

Other than the complete overhaul of trade AI for 22?

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

On a harder-to-implement-but-I-still-want-it note, if not this version than in some version in the near future... I'd love an assortment of batting stances. They don't necessarily need to have an impact on the game engine (though that'd be neat too) but I want to have some guys coming in with a crouch or open or closed or weirdo Jeff Bagwell I'm gonna poop stances.

Batting Stances!!! Yes, please.

[84Cubs]

Originally Posted by curt

I play all of my games out so yeah, really looking forward to some new 3D

I play all my games wearing baseball pants.

[84Cubs]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I’m having a difficult time wrapping my head around the fact people seem more concerned with the appearance of uniform pants…which to me at least is a long way from what the original premise of OOTP was to start.

I want improved features as well, but I've grown to enjoy watching the occasional sim of my team. Especially if it is a important game or it has a player I want to watch.

So it would be cool if they added more realistic pants. But i get it, not for everyone.

[FSUKegman]

Originally Posted by dodgerblue88

Not sure if anyone else noticed, but when they upgraded the 3d stadiums in ootp22, they were directly ported over from the com2us 9 innings baseball series.

I'm really hoping the long range plan is to port the in game 3d pbp engine from "9 innings baseball" into ootp. I would be more than happy with those level of graphics.

I too would love to see improvements to the PBP engine, specifically improving the voices for text-to-speech. The graphics are so good that I would much rather watch the play unfold and hear the announcer call the PBP and not have to take my eyes off of the action to read the text in the PBP box.

[Aceshigh24]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

It’s funny to me how it seems the priorities of what people want or expect in a new version are so vastly different than what they used to be. I was always one who wanted GM related improvement…whether it be finances, roster rules, scouting & development etc..

I’m having a difficult time wrapping my head around the fact people seem more concerned with the appearance of uniform pants…which to me at least is a long way from what the original premise of OOTP was to start.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with this. I want more GM stuff, I want an Owner mode, I want food prices, I want ticket prices for each section of the stadium and not just a standard ticket price. I want ITP baseball incorporated into this game. I think (and it pains me to say this) we're heading in the MLB The Show direction where less attention is being placed in GM related improvements (like PSUColonel said) and more attention is being put in to Perfect Team or "Micro Transactions".

Call me crazy but I want to see people come out of retirement and play again (OOTP6.5 and if it's happening now, i'm not seeing it), I want to have a wife and kids and eventually have my kids show up in the game(think that was in OOTP6.5).

Just my 2 cents but what do I know, I'm juts over hear beating on a keyboard.

PS. Not taking anything away from Markus and the team, been playing this since OOTP 6 and will continue to buy it every year. Love this game.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am not saying some sort of representation of what’s happening is a bad thing, it just feels like things are moving in a different direction than the original “theme” of OOTP.

If the graphics team and the main development team don’t share resources (which I do believe is the case) I’m just wondering why we haven’t been seeing a lot of GM stuff type improvements?

Is OOTP still the best in its genre? (baseball simulation) you bet it is…but without any serious competition things can become stagnant…and that’s just the nature of business I’m afraid. No need to go build a better mouse trap so to speak.

For starters, this is a thread about 3D visuals. So it only makes sense that everyone in here is talking about 3D improvements they'd like to see. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people (some of the same people, even), who want "GM stuff type improvements."

You also have to consider that this game has gotten the vast majority of those GM things right for many years, so improvements that can be made moving forward are marginal or behind the scenes in many respects. And it's just not fair to say that there haven't been big improvements in those areas. As someone else pointed out, the AI trade logic was completely overhauled last year. That's a big deal.

Conversely, the 3D models were introduced a few years ago and have have plenty of room for improvement, and 3D is by far the easiest aspect of the game to recognize improvements/changes in because it's right there on the entire screen when you play out a game. That's why it may feel like 3D is getting more attention. Don't mistake room for growth for allocation of resources.

[jg2977]

Originally Posted by 84Cubs

I play all my games wearing baseball pants.

I wear the Chicago White Sox style baseball shorts. Come to think of it, we should have the option to put those in the game. Shorts for everyone!

All kidding aside, it would be cool if we could have customized pants too. We'll see what happens.

Also, the ability to toggle through home, away and alternate jerseys easily would be a big plus.

[texasmame]

What's with the pants fetish?

I'd much rather see trade AI improvements than more bells and whistles.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by texasmame

What's with the pants fetish?

I'd much rather see trade AI improvements than more bells and whistles.

Well, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Both can be done.

As for me I don't need full customization that some are asking for. Just having pants that match and complete the uniform, for home and away, instead of the generic white\gray we have now would be fine. I will be surprised and disappointed if this hasn't been addressed for v23. Will I rant if not? ahhh no Just be disappointed

[Deft]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am not saying some sort of representation of what’s happening is a bad thing, it just feels like things are moving in a different direction than the original “theme” of OOTP.

If the graphics team and the main development team don’t share resources (which I do believe is the case) I’m just wondering why we haven’t been seeing a lot of GM stuff type improvements?

Is OOTP still the best in its genre? (baseball simulation) you bet it is…but without any serious competition things can become stagnant…and that’s just the nature of business I’m afraid. No need to go build a better mouse trap so to speak.

The first 15 years of OOTP development was resolving feature gaps in the GM capability, optimizing the player career arcs, incorporating sabermetric developments and stats, and general reproducibility of real baseball into a game. The last five have been more about graphics, and MLB sponsorship.

The new features (tutorials, and added 3D visual and customization) are really addressing a couple of the game's weaknesses. So if they only do minor updates to GM features, I think that is acceptable considering the game is probably to dense for average fans to get into without these tutorial updates.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

For starters, this is a thread about 3D visuals. So it only makes sense that everyone in here is talking about 3D improvements they'd like to see. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people (some of the same people, even), who want "GM stuff type improvements."

You also have to consider that this game has gotten the vast majority of those GM things right for many years, so improvements that can be made moving forward are marginal or behind the scenes in many respects. And it's just not fair to say that there haven't been big improvements in those areas. As someone else pointed out, the AI trade logic was completely overhauled last year. That's a big deal.

Conversely, the 3D models were introduced a few years ago and have have plenty of room for improvement, and 3D is by far the easiest aspect of the game to recognize improvements/changes in because it's right there on the entire screen when you play out a game. That's why it may feel like 3D is getting more attention. Don't mistake room for growth for allocation of resources.

I agree. Many things have been improved in the GM game. Maybe not as fast as some like but.. it is unfair to say nothing is being done.

As to the 3d. Not sure why some think this is going against the original theme? Do you really think Markus went in thinking "I'll never add graphics, 3d or otherwise"? That while seeing games like The Show, Triple Play, High Heat, etc. he wasn't thinking how cool it would be in his "baby" OOTP?

I think the game is in a 3d cycle for sure but.. unlike others I do not think at the price of doing anything for the GM side of the game. Stopping now would leave it undone with the gorgeous stadiums far outclassing the players that play in them. Markus, Matt, and co. have gone about this 3d in an organized, well thought out way. Each year improving on one facet until they get it all "up to the same standard". I fully anticipated player models would be the focus this year and it sounds like that is what's coming.

My best guess is more detailed models. Uni pants that match (pinstripes for those that have them etc.). Numbers on jerseys, logos on batting helmets (which hopefully go to one ear flap), and the ability to play in soft caps for historical.

I think, though not a coder, that once the players catch up to the stadiums it becomes more of a tweak\fine tuning year to year to improve? Add some more motions, maybe players milling around between plays, in the dugouts etc.? IOW the heavy lifting will be done and the rest will be gravy.

I guess we'll know shortly

[Syd Thrift]

I don't want to be a complete broken record with the "the graphics team is not the engine team" stuff so instead I'll post a video of a 9 Innings 20 promo so you can see what the graphics could look like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GDE...nnel=Com2uSUSA

Again, I understand if this isn't your thing, but... man, this level of graphics in there would be pretty damn awesome. Also, this should also be the kind of thing that could expand the userbase and not just in the "attracted to the gachi" way that Perfect Team is (which, I'm not saying that this makes PT inferior, just different, and at that I appreciate some of the changes to the base game that could really only have come from thousands of PT players finding new "meta" by cheesing the game in certain ways). Also, seflishly, I would love, love, love to see this.

Of course we're still wanting to be able to bring in graphics and it might be tough to import them using the current Facegen skins. If that means uniform designers will have to redo all of the unis, that will suck a bit but I think it will be more than made up for by the incredible improvements in graphic quality. TBH I think we may already have reached that point, albeit to a more minor extent, with uniform numbers and player names (Silvam14 has a great uni set that sort of helps with this but, well, the names are always Silvam and the numbers are always 14 so it's limited).

Also out of this: maybe we can get some action shots from games and put those on baseball cards? That's assuming we get the above level of graphics in the game and I'd figure the baseball card thing is still going to be a year or so after that...

[AdequateRandomGaming]

Originally Posted by Deft

So if they only do minor updates to GM features, I think that is acceptable considering the game is probably to dense for average fans to get into without these tutorial updates.

I think that one common thing that is being said is it's exactly the issue, in that the GM experience has been feeling stale for quite a few years already, to the point that just another year of only minor updates to GM features is starting to feel like the mode is not being treated with the same kind of love it used to.

[Statsman1]

An awesome solution, graphics-speaking, would be to re-write the required parts of the game using the Frostbite 3 engine (or Unreal 5, or whatever the latest would be).

Too much of the game is text to make that worth the effort, so there ain’t nobody signing up for a complete re-write, I realize this, so please don’t bomb me with “That will never happen.” posts. I know that.

But for the top-o-the-line graphics and animation, that kind of engine would be perfect (definitely overkill, but so cool).

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by AdequateRandomGaming

I think that one common thing that is being said is it's exactly the issue, in that the GM experience has been feeling stale for quite a few years already, to the point that just another year of only minor updates to GM features is starting to feel like the mode is not being treated with the same kind of love it used to.

Again, are we not counting the massive overhaul to GM Trade AI literally this year?

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Again, are we not counting the massive overhaul to GM Trade AI literally this year?

It always seems like people ask for this kind of thing and then when the studio delivers, it's either crickets or counted against them unless the new "add" is something they can see directly with their own two eyes. The trade AI being toughened up is, like, exactly the kind of low-reward thing that people say that they want but in practice actually seem not to want.

I really don't mean this in a "OOTP customers are so spoiled" sense; it's more of a "meh, this is just how software works" sense. Sometimes you have to go through and completely refactor something that few people care about except for you. But the point being, in spite of the lack of reward this was, I am sure, a pretty huge undertaking that took a guy or a group of guys a lot of time to implement, and no amount of 3D add-ons changes that. I guess if there's anything critical to be directed towards the OOTP fanbase complaining about a "lack of addition to the engine", it's "what did you want that concentrating on trades last year scrapped?".

[Deft]

To give you an idea of how far things have come in 20 years. This is what we had to do for players to not have a grey head image. Things have come a long way since then. I hope they keep going to expand the graphics while still maintaining the customization that has always made OOTP unique.

[AdequateRandomGaming]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Again, are we not counting the massive overhaul to GM Trade AI literally this year?

I'm not discounting anything. But 8-10 years ago, it was several features that were added per new iteration. Now it's one a year, and often feels like a placeholder that is not running at full potential.

Owner goals could use beefing up.
Pro/Rel could use beefing up.
The new coaching chemistry system could use beefing up.
Feeders could use beefing up.
Heck, maybe getting rid of the Curtis Borkholder bug could use attention. I still see that happen in my saves.

It's still the best baseball sim around. But to imply the GM experience is evolving at the same pace it did many years ago is not accurate.

BTW I'm not saying that I feel it's getting stale because of graphics. I don't necessarily think it's one or the other. I just don't think the mode that was the bread and butter of the franchise for over a decade is evolving much anymore. You're free to agree to disagree.