Maybe he prefers Jeopardy!?

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

My wife's parents are 15 years older than mine and vividly recall living through polio. I am thankful that when the polio vaccine came out we did not have a country full of people thinking more of themselves than their community and mistaking selfishness for liberty.

To be fair, they (probably) also weren't given mixed messages on the dangers of polio based on political leaning. I'm sure if that was happening like it is happening now, there would have been more push back. A united message that is backed by indisputable proof goes a long way toward getting people on the same page.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

To be fair, they (probably) also weren't given mixed messages on the dangers of polio based on political leaning. I'm sure if that was happening like it is happening now, there would have been more push back. A united message that is backed by indisputable proof goes a long way toward getting people on the same page.

I wasn't there, but I am fairly certain that Eisenhower didn't spend a year loudly downplaying how bad polio was thus creating a mass of people believing that mitigation efforts against polio were an afront to their political leader and their 'movement' to such a degree that taking the vaccine when it came followed the same pattern.

They knew how bad poilio was because they lived it and weren't being fed daily bull**** that the reality was something other than it was. My father-in-law described the vaccine as seeming like a miracle when it arrived and getting a shot was viewed as not only self preservation and protection for his children but an act of good citizenship. A patriot act.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by thehef

I'll agree with you that society is very weird. It can also be extremely judgmental, intolerant, narrow-minded, and high-and-mighty when it feels that it knows that it's right.

I mean, when the people who are whinging about fee-fees are also not getting a free vaccine and attempted to overthrow the duly elected government less than a year ago, I think those of us who "feel" that they are right when those "feelings" are backed up by, like, facts and stuff, I think we have some leeway to be judgmental. Intolerant? Nah, fam. That's you guys. Miss me with that until y'all stop getting freaked out by the presence of non-binary people in the world.

[albatross11]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

To be fair, they (probably) also weren't given mixed messages on the dangers of polio based on political leaning. I'm sure if that was happening like it is happening now, there would have been more push back. A united message that is backed by indisputable proof goes a long way toward getting people on the same page.

Yes, we were given mixed messages. Polio was a "Communist plot" (they were our boogie men back then). There's nothing new going on these days. Every generation thinks they're going through something unprecedented. Not. Humans have been "rinsing n repeating" since we walked on stage. Just using different methods. I was a kid. We lined up in school, and got our little cubes of sugar with the vaccine on it (oral vaccine). Had a few friends who had to spend some time in those "iron lungs". Stories in the media everyday of people dying. Some people carrying the after effects of the disease all their lives...physical, emotional and mental. Some religious leaders urging their "flock" to take the vaccine; some urging theirs not to. Politicians taking whatever stance they thought would appease their followers and further their careers and agendas. Same ol' same ol'. It's what we do. sadly.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

I wasn't there, but I am fairly certain that Eisenhower didn't spend a year loudly downplaying how bad polio was thus creating a mass of people believing that mitigation efforts against polio were an afront to their political leader and their 'movement' to such a degree that taking the vaccine when it came followed the same pattern.

They knew how bad poilio was because they lived it and weren't being fed daily bull**** that the reality was something other than it was. My father-in-law described the vaccine as seeming like a miracle when it arrived and getting a shot was viewed as not only self preservation and protection for his children but an act of good citizenship. A patriot act.

I was there. I took my sugar cube--which still tasted like medicine.

We all saw kids walking around (sort of, because they had polio, you know) and were scared poop-less. We did not want that. Too many people don't fear COVID the way we feared polio. For me, the biggest problem has been, and continues to be, not showing the pain and suffering of those with the disease. Horrible death will get through to even the densest of morons if they can't avoid seeing it wherever they go. Forget about sensibilities and privacy for those with the disease. I want the anti-vaccine morons to have death thrust in their faces. Repeatedly until every last one of us is vaccinated.

Absolutely no one spoke against the vaccine, least of all real leaders like Ike. Not even the Commies tried to make light of this.

This country has changed in many ways, a lot of good, a lot of bad. The real issue is that too many people can't agree on the good and bad parts.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by albatross11

Yes, we were given mixed messages. Polio was a "Communist plot" (they were our boogie men back then). There's nothing new going on these days. Every generation thinks they're going through something unprecedented. Not. Humans have been "rinsing n repeating" since we walked on stage. Just using different methods. I was a kid. We lined up in school, and got our little cubes of sugar with the vaccine on it (oral vaccine). Had a few friends who had to spend some time in those "iron lungs". Stories in the media everyday of people dying. Some people carrying the after effects of the disease all their lives...physical, emotional and mental. Some religious leaders urging their "flock" to take the vaccine; some urging theirs not to. Politicians taking whatever stance they thought would appease their followers and further their careers and agendas. Same ol' same ol'. It's what we do. sadly.

Was Ike on a daily mgaphone telling you about those commie conspiracies? Were there entire networks of propagandists downplaying the threat from polio? Were there droves of parents at local school board meeting shouting mad over those sugar cubes you lined up for?

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

I was there. I took my sugar cube--which still tasted like medicine.

We all saw kids walking around (sort of, because they had polio, you know) and were scared poop-less. We did not want that. Too many people don't fear COVID the way we feared polio. For me, the biggest problem has been, and continues to be, not showing the pain and suffering of those with the disease. Horrible death will get through to even the densest of morons if they can't avoid seeing it wherever they go. Forget about sensibilities and privacy for those with the disease. I want the anti-vaccine morons to have death thrust in their faces. Repeatedly until every last one of us is vaccinated.

Absolutely no one spoke against the vaccine, least of all real leaders like Ike. Not even the Commies tried to make light of this.

This country has changed in many ways, a lot of good, a lot of bad. The real issue is that too many people can't agree on the good and bad parts.

The highlighted part rings so true for me, thank you. Watching (well, through a first floor window where she was mercifully moved in the final two days) my mother-in-law pass away from this still haunts me. My wife has been through hell coming to terms with the way her mother passed much moreso than 'that' she passed.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Regarding the first quote above, "How does Rodgers get immunized without the vaccine?" That's the big question. There are many, many very scientifically knowledgable and capable scientists and doctors who believe that the vaccine is not the only way to become immune to covid-19. Just like there are many, many very scientifically knowledgable and capable scientists and doctors who believe that the vaccine is the only way to become immune to covid-19. Science, by its very nature, allows for these differing views. Apparently, the doctor(s?) that Rodgers has seen fall in the former camp rather than the latter.

Rodgers didn't talk to any doctors or scientists about getting alternative options for Covid immunity. Instead, he evidently talked to "doctors" and "scientists." Specifically:

While Rodgers said at an August press conference that he’d been “immunized,” it turns out—according, at least, to a vaguely-sourced NFL.com report—that he meant that he’d received an alternative homeopathic treatment meant to “raise his antibody levels.”

To be clear: homeopathy is quackery. If you don't believe me, take a look at some of James Randi's videos where he overdoses on homeopathic sleeping pills. Rodgers might as well have gone to a tribal witch doctor or the QAnon Shaman - the result would have been the same.

Isaac Asimov once said something like "your ignorance isn't the equivalent to my knowledge." In the same vein, I think the NFL is entitled to say to Rodgers "your sugar pills are not equivalent to an actual vaccine."

[Syd Thrift]

I guess if I was trying to be the fairest of possible fairs to anti-vaxxers, the COVID vaccine is fighting a type of virus that mutates fairly rapidly and as such it doesn't have the same virtually 100% effectiveness rate that polio and smallpox and measles vaccines did and do. In fact, the mRNA thing is kind of a scientific marvel in and of itself. And people are really, really, really bad at understanding probability, like it's a thing that humans are just plain wired to not get. Weather forecasters can't say that there's going to be a 50% chance of rain because people just can't fathom the idea that there's a roughly equal chance of sunshine and precipitation. For similar reasons, people get freaked out over the tiny but non-zero chances of complications while trying to downplay the much less tiny chances of getting infected and suffering major consequences (including death) from COVID if you are unvaccinated.

It's still bad and stupid reasoning and even if it's understandable from afar does not mean that pundits and political figures should be repeating these lies and/or consequences of poor human understanding of statistics. If anything, IMO it makes vocal anti-vaxxers who warp the truth about these things even more at fault since they're conning people, many of whom are in the exact at-risk groups that these anti-vax people claim are the only ones who really die of the disease (sorry, man, but a lot of y'all are older and are overweight; I'm not here to fat-shame or to age-shame but it's just a fact that these two aspects of the human condition make a COVID case much, much more deadly). To make matters worse, many of the people who downplayed the virus - Trump himself, for instance, have been vaccinated themselves, so a lot of this is even "do what I say, not as I do" (which, I guess to be fair to Trump, he did actually tell people to get vaccinated at a rally back in July and was loudly booed for it).

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Rodgers didn't talk to any doctors or scientists about getting alternative options for Covid immunity. Instead, he evidently talked to "doctors" and "scientists." Specifically:
To be clear: homeopathy is quackery. If you don't believe me, take a look at some of James Randi's videos where he overdoses on homeopathic sleeping pills. Rodgers might as well have gone to a tribal witch doctor or the QAnon Shaman - the result would have been the same.

Isaac Asimov once said something like "your ignorance isn't the equivalent to my knowledge." In the same vein, I think the NFL is entitled to say to Rodgers "your sugar pills are not equivalent to an actual vaccine."

HOLY CRAP that's actually way worse than I thought. I think I'd have preferred if he'd just flat out lied about being vaccinated.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Rodgers didn't talk to any doctors or scientists about getting alternative options for Covid immunity. Instead, he evidently talked to "doctors" and "scientists." Specifically:

A quote from the article you linked.

Rodgers had “received homeopathic treatment from his personal doctor to raise his antibody levels.”

Yes, he did talk to a doctor. Homeopathic does not equal witch doctor. You'd think in this day and age people would get that. Just because you might not subscribe to homeopathic methods does not mean they are wrong.

[Syd Thrift]

Yeah, sorry, but homeopathy is the Western equivalent of witch doctoring. It’s pseudoscientific BS and based on absolutely nothing real. It is “wrong” as in not in any way therapeutic or medical, objectively speaking.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Yes, he did talk to a doctor

Did he? Did he really? I haven't seen Rodgers's doctor identified, but I'd be surprised if an actual M.D. from an actual medical school prescribed homeopathic "vaccines" to a patient. A "doctor" of homeopathy, on the other hand, would do something like that.

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Homeopathic does not equal witch doctor. You'd think in this day and age people would get that. Just because you might not subscribe to homeopathic methods does not mean they are wrong.

I will pray for your health (inasmuch as prayer is just as effective as homeopathy in preventing Covid).

[albatross11]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Was Ike on a daily mgaphone telling you about those commie conspiracies? Were there entire networks of propagandists downplaying the threat from polio? Were there droves of parents at local school board meeting shouting mad over those sugar cubes you lined up for?

There was significant push-back. Just different methods, as I said. Obviously there was no internet, social media, 24-hour "news" programs, across-the-board radio talk shows, etc. The idea that what's happening now is "different" than what's ever happened is to deny the nature of human beings. That's all I was saying. I don't gamble, but i would bet some of the same behavior occurred during "The Plague"...and they didn't even have school boards (I don't think).

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Did he? Did he really? I haven't seen Rodgers's doctor identified, but I'd be surprised if an actual M.D. from an actual medical school prescribed homeopathic "vaccines" to a patient. A "doctor" of homeopathy, on the other hand, would do something like that.

I know several actual M.D.s who use homeopathy as a part of their real medical practices. Real doctors can and do use homeopathy. It's perfectly fine if that's not the type of doctor you choose to see.

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I will pray for your health (inasmuch as prayer is just as effective as homeopathy in preventing Covid).

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Anyway, the point being, Rodgers did see his personal doctor who seems to have prescribed a homeopathic means to combat Covid-19 that failed. And to boot, Rodgers seems to have lied about or at least made the league believe he was vaccinated when he wasn't. I don't think we know at this point how much Green Bay knew about it. But this will be an interesting story to follow. I predict Rodgers gets suspended for 2-4 games and gets fined fairly heavily. And Green Bay will probably get fined as well, whether they knew about this or not, because it's their job to oversee things and they failed.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

I wasn't there, but I am fairly certain that Eisenhower didn't spend a year loudly downplaying how bad polio was thus creating a mass of people believing that mitigation efforts against polio were an afront to their political leader and their 'movement' to such a degree that taking the vaccine when it came followed the same pattern.

They knew how bad poilio was because they lived it and weren't being fed daily bull**** that the reality was something other than it was. My father-in-law described the vaccine as seeming like a miracle when it arrived and getting a shot was viewed as not only self preservation and protection for his children but an act of good citizenship. A patriot act.

Polio deaths reached it's peak in 1979 at 379,000 deaths. vaccine came out around 1952? Covid vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting Covid, Polio vaccine did prevent you from getting Polio.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by albatross11

There was significant push-back. Just different methods, as I said. Obviously there was no internet, social media, 24-hour "news" programs, across-the-board radio talk shows, etc. The idea that what's happening now is "different" than what's ever happened is to deny the nature of human beings. That's all I was saying. I don't gamble, but i would bet some of the same behavior occurred during "The Plague"...and they didn't even have school boards (I don't think).

No one has ever claimed that "what's happening now is 'different' than what's ever happened" before.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by albatross11

There was significant push-back. Just different methods, as I said. Obviously there was no internet, social media, 24-hour "news" programs, across-the-board radio talk shows, etc. The idea that what's happening now is "different" than what's ever happened is to deny the nature of human beings. That's all I was saying. I don't gamble, but i would bet some of the same behavior occurred during "The Plague"...and they didn't even have school boards (I don't think).

From what I gather, there was much, much broader acceptance of the polio vaccines than what we are seeing today with respect to the Covid-19 vaccines. What's different is not the human nature which you are pointing to but the methods by which bad actors can amplify and diseminate false or misleading information that plays on that human nature. This is differnet, I believe.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by The Game

Polio deaths reached it's peak in 1979 at 379,000 deaths. vaccine came out around 1952? Covid vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting Covid, Polio vaccine did prevent you from getting Polio.

There were 4 U.S. deaths attributed to polio in 1979. It was essentially erraticated here. World wide vaccination rates for many diseases sadly lag the US and other developed countries.

[pilight]

The polio vaccine was the outlier. Other vaccine mandates have all featured protests and exception seeking.