Holding Runners Hold/Arm ratings.

[Bobfather]

I hope I ask this correctly. As I see it there is a combination of pitcher hold rating and catcher arm rating that affects stolen bases. Now, what effect does holding not holding the runner have? Does it negate the pitcher's hold rating if you don't hold the runner? Or is it the other way around that there is a bonus for holding a runner? I tend to hold anyone who is a 60 steal rating or higher, even when my pitcher/catcher combo has a rating of 75+ each.. Do I need to hold to get the full effect of these ratings?.

[brotherblues]

I've always wondered what the penalty is for choosing "hold runner"

Would love to know what's my risk reward ratio but that would take way too much testing.

[The Game]

In my EBL league i have Stealing at Normal. My main C has a 9 arm (1-10 scale) most of my SP have a hold of 6 or better. My C has thrown out 12.5% after 1 month. She was at 36% last year, which ranked 3rd in the AL.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by brotherblues

I've always wondered what the penalty is for choosing "hold runner"

Would love to know what's my risk reward ratio but that would take way too much testing.

I never understand why anyone wants to know under the hood stuff? The game tries to mimic reality not be a math problem to solve by running tests. The main reason I have no interest in online leagues, and I've tried them with other games, is some want to play baseball, football, basketball, etc. while others want to play "solve the game engine".

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I never understand why anyone wants to know under the hood stuff? The game tries to mimic reality not be a math problem to solve by running tests. The main reason I have no interest in online leagues, and I've tried them with other games, is some want to play baseball, football, basketball, etc. while others want to play "solve the game engine".

Not to take this off topic, but if you think that's bad, you should play PGA Tour 2K21. There are people who have turned that game into a math problem that is solved for every shot, which leads to them shooting scores in the 50s, even on the hardest of courses. I never understood how that would be fun, but to each his/her own.

Back on topic, I've always assumed that there's a slight negative effect on pitchers when they have to pitch with runners on, regardless of whether you use the "hold" function or not. I would certainly think not using "hold" would increase the likelihood of a stolen base and negate a good hold rating for the pitcher. But I really don't play out a ton of games, so I don't have any first-hand evidence of those beliefs.

[brotherblues]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I never understand why anyone wants to know under the hood stuff? The game tries to mimic reality not be a math problem to solve by running tests. The main reason I have no interest in online leagues, and I've tried them with other games, is some want to play baseball, football, basketball, etc. while others want to play "solve the game engine".

I'm assuming "hold runner" is about the same as "pitching from the stretch." Real teams have data on how pitchers perform from the stretch and the advantages and tradeoffs of it.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I never understand why anyone wants to know under the hood stuff? The game tries to mimic reality not be a math problem to solve by running tests. The main reason I have no interest in online leagues, and I've tried them with other games, is some want to play baseball, football, basketball, etc. while others want to play "solve the game engine".

There's a side of this where OOTP in particular, as opposed to games like MLB The Show or FIFA, is a stat-based game and it's good to know if the stat engine works out right. If it turned out, for instance, that holding runners caused runners to get thrown out 50% of the time, I'd be happy that these people took the time to "game" the system like this so that the guys at OOTPDev could fix it. We've also had people run pretty heavy regression analysis to determine that fielding is potentially a really big deal, possibly a bigger deal than IRL in fact. One thing we haven't seen people do is come up with a setting that is more "right" (I don't think top level real-life CFs actually save 7-8 wins a season) but it's still a good data point to know, both when you're playing in leagues and when you're playing games by yourself. Even in "god mode", I like knowing that the probable reason why the Pilots and Royals are over-performing in my fictional/historical league in the year 1969 is that the AI for both teams went whole-hog into getting good-field no-hit players.

I personally don't super enjoy playing against people who are so locked in on powergaming that I have to do the same in order to compete. I also don't enjoy playing RPGs with people who do this; it's totally a "play your own way" thing, although I suspect that online leagues have that potential issue where a league with 25 owners who don't powergame and 3 guys who do will see those same 3 guys win every season. But aside from my personal preference for not playing with those folks, I'm not going to crap on these folks have fun with the game and I'm definitely grateful for the enhancements they've caused the game to make.

My one gripe I guess with those folks is that they get so locked into the stats that they refuse to accept that other explanations might be possible. This is exacerbated a bit by the fact that regression analysis is a thing that makes a lot more sense to do in a game like OOTP vs real life (basketball statistical analysis in particular has some really, really awful regression issues that makes some of the advanced stats less informative than the basic ones). But I've gotten into arguments with folks - there's a really great regression-analysis guru on Reddit - about whether or not, for instance, the "twice through the lineup" malus exists at all in OOTP. It's like, look, man, the devs say it's in there and have even spelled out how it works. You saying you see no evidence of that is most likely because you're not being creative enough in your regression, not that it's actually not there (not to go too deep into a rabbit hole but it's well known that this malus is only really given to two-pitch guys or maybe 3 pitch guys where the 3rd pitch is trash; guess who the AI will never, ever start or give multiple innings to under any circumstance?).

[zappa1]

I always thought that holding runners had to do with the firstbaseman, that is if he's holding the runner or playing off the bag. If he's holding the runner, then the pitcher's hold runners rating goes into effect. But as usual, I'm probably wrong again.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by zappa1

I always though that holding runners had to do with the firstbaseman, that is if he's holding the runner or playing off the bag. If he's holding the runner, then the pitcher's hold runners rating goes into effect. But as usual, I'm probably wrong again.

Nah, the devs have gone over that. Basically, choosing to stick the first baseman on the bag with a runner on first isn't really a strategy because everyone does it, so instead that's baked into the game. The "hold runner" option is more about the pitcher throwing over to first a lot and otherwise occupying part of his brain with that guy, which on the one hand causes steal rates to go down but on the other has an effect on their ability to miss bats, etc. It *might* influence pitch selection (IRL some catchers love calling fastballs with runners on base because offspeed pitches are easier to steal on) but I don't know. You don't want to use it on every runner or even every non-slow runner. It's a strategy you... well, you use strategically.

[oldfatbaldguy]

I always wondered what the heck that means, and I don't use it. So it means the pitcher throws to first a bunch, making his own decision about when, rather than ordering it with the 5 button? That seems smart if you're playing one-pitch because it means he might do it on, say, a 2-1 pitch, and only rarely can you change directives deep in the count if you're playing one-pitch.

On a related note, I've always thought one-pitch should stop on a 3-0 count when your team is batting to give you a chance to order the batter to let one go by.

[brotherblues]

Originally Posted by oldfatbaldguy

I always wondered what the heck that means, and I don't use it. So it means the pitcher throws to first a bunch, making his own decision about when, rather than ordering it with the 5 button? That seems smart if you're playing one-pitch because it means he might do it on, say, a 2-1 pitch, and only rarely can you change directives deep in the count if you're playing one-pitch.

On a related note, I've always thought one-pitch should stop on a 3-0 count when your team is batting to give you a chance to order the batter to let one go by.

Nothing currently stops you from taking on 3-0 when in one pitch mode. I'm actually confused by most of what you said honestly

[fuzzy_patters]

Originally Posted by oldfatbaldguy

I always wondered what the heck that means, and I don't use it. So it means the pitcher throws to first a bunch, making his own decision about when, rather than ordering it with the 5 button? That seems smart if you're playing one-pitch because it means he might do it on, say, a 2-1 pitch, and only rarely can you change directives deep in the count if you're playing one-pitch.

On a related note, I've always thought one-pitch should stop on a 3-0 count when your team is batting to give you a chance to order the batter to let one go by.

That’s a neat idea. It would be cool if you could have it fast forward to the end of the at bat or to a certain count if it comes up. I could also see wanting it to stop at a count like 2-1 if you’re thinking about a hit and run.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by brotherblues

Nothing currently stops you from taking on 3-0 when in one pitch mode. I'm actually confused by most of what you said honestly

In my understanding, the term one pitch mode when talking about OOTP means that you aren't playing pitch-by-pitch, but rather that the game engine mostly abstracts each at-bat and what is shown is just the pitch that resolves the action.
In that mode (which is the mode I exclusively use), as oldfatbaldguy indicated, you might notice that the count is 3-0 prior to the at-bat being resolved but you have no way of instructing your batter to take the next pitch.

I think you might be confusing the terms one pitch mode and pitch-by-pitch mode and that is why you are confused by oldfatbaldguy's post.
(Anyway, that's the guess from this oldskinnybaldguy.)

[brotherblues]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

In my understanding, the term one pitch mode when talking about OOTP means that you aren't playing pitch-by-pitch, but rather that the game engine mostly abstracts each at-bat and what is shown is just the pitch that resolves the action.
In that mode (which is the mode I exclusively use), as oldfatbaldguy indicated, you might notice that the count is 3-0 prior to the at-bat being resolved but you have no way of instructing your batter to take the next pitch.

I think you might be confusing the terms one pitch mode and pitch-by-pitch mode and that is why you are confused by oldfatbaldguy's post.
(Anyway, that's the guess from this oldskinnybaldguy.)

You are absolutely correct, I've been using the terms wrong in my head all this time.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by brotherblues

You are absolutely correct, I've been using the terms wrong in my head all this time.

Understandable. I think the terms don't do a great job of differentiating and I often find myself not quite sure what exactly folks here mean when they use them (or what they mean to mean, perhaps. )