What the #@!!

Greenbay · 08-18-2021, 07:07 PM

Game tied in the bottom of the 9th (I'm visiting team). Home team has runner on 3rd with one out. I bring the infield and outfield in. Batter hits a groundball to 3rd (Machado) instead of throwing home, he throws to first for the out allowing the winning run to score from third.

I've been playing OOTP for 10 years and have never seen that before, so I'm not going to complain too much. I have seen real life player do dumber things than that. But what the #@!!

jokerhusky1129 · 08-18-2021, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenbay

Game tied in the bottom of the 9th (I'm visiting team). Home team has runner on 3rd with one out. I bring the infield and outfield in. Batter hits a groundball to 3rd (Machado) instead of throwing home, he throws to first for the out allowing the winning run to score from third.

I've been playing OOTP for 10 years and have never seen that before, so I'm not going to complain too much. I have seen real life player do dumber things than that. But what the #@!!

But he did throw to first right? He didn't catch the ball and try to rundown the player?

Greenbay · 08-18-2021, 08:59 PM

No. Infield was in. Runner was not that far off third. Had he thrown home they should have got him. At least you have to try since it was the winning run. Out at first meant nothing. It was a walk-off win.

BirdWatcher · 08-18-2021, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenbay

No. Infield was in. Runner was not that far off third. Had he thrown home they should have got him. At least you have to try since it was the winning run. Out at first meant nothing. It was a walk-off win.

And it would be great if eventually the game was coded to recognize that in these situations a visualization showing the fielder making what I can only assume was already determined to be an unsuccessful throw home would be in order.
But I suspect the simple truth is that the game engine had already determined that the runner was going to score on this play. It might have made you feel better had the 3D visualization of this play showed you Machado making an unsuccessful attempt to retire the batter at home, but the results are the same regardless.

Syd Thrift · 08-18-2021, 10:40 PM

I do feel like on a play like this, the game engine needs to be updated as well. In real life in the bottom of the 9th, a runner on 3rd, and a ground ball to the infield, the defense is at least going to look the runner back to 3rd before throwing to 1st, even at the cost of allowing the runner to go in safe. The only time a runner actually scores in that situation is if a. the ball gets through the infield or a 3B or someone makes a diving stop and can’t get up in time to make a play anywhere, b. someone commits a complete boneheaded play, or c. the guy on 3rd was flying in on the pitch, in which case they still try to make a (possibly 0%) chance at the out at home.

I doubt this situation happens more than like 20 times a season throughout an entire league but, well, it’d be a nice to have.

Greenbay · 08-19-2021, 12:29 AM

You guys brought up some good points. I guess it's too much to expect a computer game to realize the gravity to situation and make the play to home at all costs. At the time, I went nuts because it cost me the game. I'll chalk it up to a bone head play by Machado. He has made of few of them. I can't send him to the minors so I'll bench him for a week.

joefromchicago · 08-19-2021, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

The only time a runner actually scores in that situation is if a. the ball gets through the infield or a 3B or someone makes a diving stop and can’t get up in time to make a play anywhere, b. someone commits a complete boneheaded play, or c. the guy on 3rd was flying in on the pitch, in which case they still try to make a (possibly 0%) chance at the out at home.

Third baseman fields the ball cleanly, checks the runner, throws to first. The runner immediately breaks for home The first baseman throws home. The runner makes a brilliant slide to evade the catcher's tag.

JerseyPirate · 08-20-2021, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Third baseman fields the ball cleanly, checks the runner, throws to first. The runner immediately breaks for home The first baseman throws home. The runner makes a brilliant slide to evade the catcher's tag.

Think Eric Hosmer's play in the 2015 World Series against the Mets to tie the game.

joefromchicago · 08-20-2021, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyPirate

Think Eric Hosmer's play in the 2015 World Series against the Mets to tie the game.

Yep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hYry9F2QRM

Matt Arnold · 08-20-2021, 12:18 PM

Was the result of the play an infield single? Looking through, I can see there might be some cases where the logic is too rigid in trying to get the runner at first on them rather than go to the plate (even in a futile effort)

Syd Thrift · 08-20-2021, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Third baseman fields the ball cleanly, checks the runner, throws to first. The runner immediately breaks for home The first baseman throws home. The runner makes a brilliant slide to evade the catcher's tag.

Okay, sure, but we don’t see this in the game. This exact situation happens like only a couple times a year but if you get into that situation that’s what you should see / read, not “it’s a ground ball to second, here’s the toss to first, and that’s the second out of the inning… and the runner on third scores! Ballgame!”. You trade the run for the out a lot of times, to be sure, but you never trade a win for an out.

joefromchicago · 08-20-2021, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Okay, sure, but we don’t see this in the game. This exact situation happens like only a couple times a year but if you get into that situation that’s what you should see / read, not “it’s a ground ball to second, here’s the toss to first, and that’s the second out of the inning… and the runner on third scores! Ballgame!”. You trade the run for the out a lot of times, to be sure, but you never trade a win for an out.

I'm not sure how the play-by-play would go, but the game summary would simply say "groundout 5-3, runner scores." That's how Hosmer's dash home in game 5 of the 2015 World Series was scored. So just looking at the summary doesn't necessarily tell you how the play unfolded.

Greenbay · 08-20-2021, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Was the result of the play an infield single? Looking through, I can see there might be some cases where the logic is too rigid in trying to get the runner at first on them rather than go to the plate (even in a futile effort)

No, runner was out at first.

08-18-2021, 07:07 PM	#1
Greenbay Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: El Cajon, CA Posts: 175	What the #@!! Game tied in the bottom of the 9th (I'm visiting team). Home team has runner on 3rd with one out. I bring the infield and outfield in. Batter hits a groundball to 3rd (Machado) instead of throwing home, he throws to first for the out allowing the winning run to score from third. I've been playing OOTP for 10 years and have never seen that before, so I'm not going to complain too much. I have seen real life player do dumber things than that. But what the #@!!

08-18-2021, 08:59 PM	#3
Greenbay Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: El Cajon, CA Posts: 175	No. Infield was in. Runner was not that far off third. Had he thrown home they should have got him. At least you have to try since it was the winning run. Out at first meant nothing. It was a walk-off win.

08-19-2021, 12:29 AM	#6
Greenbay Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: El Cajon, CA Posts: 175	You guys brought up some good points. I guess it's too much to expect a computer game to realize the gravity to situation and make the play to home at all costs. At the time, I went nuts because it cost me the game. I'll chalk it up to a bone head play by Machado. He has made of few of them. I can't send him to the minors so I'll bench him for a week.

08-20-2021, 12:18 PM	#10
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,274	Was the result of the play an infield single? Looking through, I can see there might be some cases where the logic is too rigid in trying to get the runner at first on them rather than go to the plate (even in a futile effort)