Does Visiting The Mound Matter?: A Half-Assed Study

[Mancandy]

In real life, it’s not just one per inning per pitcher, it’s also five per nine innings with an additional visit for every extra inning played.

If mound visits have a real effect beyond buying time for somebody in the bullpen to get ready, which they obviously should, I’d like to see that rule put in the game too.

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by jeffw3000

Thanks for this. I have always wondered if mound visits help the pitcher out. I manage every game and have always used mound visits for 2 things.

1. To give my pitcher time to warm up in the pen.
2. To settle down my pitcher when he is struggling.

While I have always felt that #1 definitely works in OOTP, I was never sure of #2. I have always thought about doing a study like this but never took time to. This is probably a small sample size, but at least it is some real data.

Agreed on both of the above. But I also think of a mound visit as an opportunity to talk the the infielders about how to play the next hitter, set up the defense, generally talk strategy. I doubt the AI gives any credit for that, even if I change the default defensive position afterwards.

Unfortunately, the pitcher feedback is pretty generic, and almost always related to fatigue. Occasionally this is useful, as when my guy is gassed and I have not noticed it. But, as in real life, 90% of the time the pitcher just wants to keep pitching.

I love the stories of how Joe Garigiola would call time late in a close game to discuss where to eat after the game. Or Yogi Berra would call Whitey Ford’s attention to that blonde girl in the first row. Probably these were ways to take the hurler’s mind off the game for a moment.

I would use mound visits more often, if I played with the infantile three-batter minimum rule (it is disabled in every one of my leagues). If I can’t pull a guy who walks the leadoff hitter and then allows a dinger (think of Ian Kennedy’s Phils’ debut last night), at least I can berate him.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Brad K

If it really has an effect what's to stop someone from gaming the system by visiting the mound every inning? I hope mound visits are just cosmetic.

You as the player limit yourself? Same as not using commissioner mode to cheat in your game.

Also mound visits have never been cosmetic. I have this discussion, it seems like every version, where I note it says in the manual that visits can (not will) calm the pitcher. The normal reply is "just because the manual says it doesn't mean it works that way in the game". A nice way of saying the developers are lying

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This is another one of those things where I say “ if it does have any type of effect, does the AI have the opportunity to do the same?”

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I’m not saying that..what I’m saying is it’s not a level playing field.

You, as the player, can level the playing field. Turn off warmups and don't use the mound visit. You and the AI are now using the same rules. Unless the AI does use visits "in the background" to calm it's pitchers? This is something I've never seen the developers comment on. Could be the AI does but my best guess is it does not.

Originally Posted by Brad K

The game is full of things that are just for show. Why not make this one of them if it isn't already.

Because some like it and others can choose to not use it.

Originally Posted by Brad K

It shouldn't be a level playing field. But whatever advantage their is should go to AI.

You can have this too by simply not visiting the mound but keeping the warmups. But what about getting more time to throw in the pen without a visit feature you say? If you don't use it at all that tilts the field even more towards the AI. It should make you happy

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Reed

I don't know anything about coding but could the developers code it so that mound visits in subsequent innings have no effect in calming a pitcher down???

Originally Posted by texasmame

Why get away from what can happen IRL? I think a visit can accomplish one of 3 things:


- Pitcher tells you he's done/something wrong and you remove him.
- Pitcher calmed by visit
- Pitcher irritated by visit


There are also pitchers where a visit may not have any effect but to make that "after x innings" makes no sense. Should be on a pitcher-by-pitcher personality basis.

Exactly

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jeffw3000

Thanks for this. I have always wondered if mound visits help the pitcher out. I manage every game and have always used mound visits for 2 things.

1. To give my pitcher time to warm up in the pen.
2. To settle down my pitcher when he is struggling.

While I have always felt that #1 definitely works in OOTP, I was never sure of #2. I have always thought about doing a study like this but never took time to. This is probably a small sample size, but at least it is some real data.

The manual has stated for years that a visit may settle the pitcher so there was no reason to doubt that it was a part of the game. When it comes to "how much" and testing? That to me ruins the illusion of playing in a "real baseball world". I normally don't even enter these types of threads as I don't want to know formulas under the hood. I don't want to know in situation X, if I visit the mound player Y's OBP will drop X%, his K's will go up Y% etc. Where's the fun in that? Same reason playing online is a no go for me. Too many want to play "OOTP the game" and not "OOTP baseball". Learning the engine is how one should play to these folks and, while I don't see the fun in that, they're free to do it their way.

While I don't care to know all of these things testing does have value as it can find out things aren't working as intended and lead to fixes we all get the benefit from. As for me testing would only be something I'd do if I thought something wasn't working as it should. As to the topic of warmup effects? I play out all of my games and I've never doubted they work.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

You as the player limit yourself? Same as not using commissioner mode to cheat in your game.

Also mound visits have never been cosmetic. I have this discussion, it seems like every version, where I note it says in the manual that visits can (not will) calm the pitcher. The normal reply is "just because the manual says it doesn't mean it works that way in the game". A nice way of saying the developers are lying

Lying? C'mon. Game manuals everywhere have errors.

[BirdWatcher]

Apologies if I have read all of this too quickly or am asking something that is pretty obvious to everyone else (I'll confess that I only control substitutions when I play out my team's games, so I don't have any practical experience with this option), but I'm wondering, when we talk about rules for how often mound visits can happen, whether the mound visits in OOTP are meant to capture both coaching visits to the mound as well as catcher visits? (Catcher/infielders visits would seem IRL to at least theoretically serve some sort of calming down purpose and maybe even some strategic planning purpose.)

That would alter the issue of how many are allowed per inning, no?

(Again, sorry if I'm just being dense here.)

Edit: And I should have done a bit of research first. So it seems as though these do count towards the game total limit, but do not count towards the limit of 1 per inning per pitcher with the necessity of removing the pitcher for a reliever.

[lencombs]

I have no idea if mound visits affect coding in any way or just cosmetic but I use them as a timeout for myself when managing to gather my thoughts and assess the situation. My pitcher is in trouble should I go to the pen, who is available, who are the next few batters, etc.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Lying? C'mon. Game manuals everywhere have errors.

Once or twice saying the manual can be wrong, ok. Somebody new to the game and forums? Same, there is leeway. For those that have played for years to carry on with it version after version? Yean, that's not saying "I think there is an error in the manual".

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Once or twice saying the manual can be wrong, ok. Somebody new to the game and forums? Same, there is leeway. For those that have played for years to carry on with it version after version? Yean, that's not saying "I think there is an error in the manual".

Why attribute something to moral deficiency when an explanation of error is sufficient?

[Brad K]

Let me give you example. The manual for 19 said a player could lose a defensive rating at a position. As late as the manual for 18 its said "Note: A player cannot 'lose' positions. Once he has learned a position, he will always have a rating at that position."

http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...ions_and_roles

Reality is a player could lose a position rating as early as OOTP 11.

This is an error. It's not a lie.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Why attribute something to moral deficiency when an explanation of error is sufficient?

These threads have not been a secret, it comes up every year, leaving an explanation of error insufficient. If it was an error why wouldn't they just do the easy thing and change the manual?

Take into account all of the times the developer has commented on the engine being the same for both simulated and played out games only to have users continue to claim that that can't be right ("look at my results" which most times translates to "I just lost another game"). Either the developer is lying or they are not about the engine. There is no confusion or error here. So, why would the developer comment at all on mound visits? Just leave the manual with the correct information and move on.

[Brad K]

I just realized my comments are irrelevant. I don't play out games anymore!

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by oldfatbaldguy

Do we know the AI doesn't do visits to the mound? Do we know that the AI doesn't warm up pitchers?

If both are true and AI relief pitchers need no warmup, one of these things is an advantage for the AI and the other is an advantage for me. I find the degree of difficulty in the way I play the game satisfactory, so I'm not worried about this.

Yes, we know that the AI does not have to warm up pitchers. I don't know if the AI goes to the mound but I don't think that it does; I definitely don't see anything in the play-by-play about this (and "visit the mound" is a manager/pitching option, not a manager/substitution option, so theoretically if you are controlling substitutions but not pitching/defense you should see them).

[oldfatbaldguy]

Huh. In one of my fictional leagues there was a team that had a closer who was a two-way player, and if he was in the field he never closed. I assumed at the time that was because there was no way to warm him up.

[Len1950]

Originally Posted by texasmame

Why get away from what can happen IRL? I think a visit can accomplish one of 3 things:
- Pitcher tells you he's done/something wrong and you remove him.
- Pitcher calmed by visit
- Pitcher irritated by visit.

Pitcher can also find out that candlesticks always make a nice gift.