Christmas Wish 2020: Please Put Women's Baseball in OOTP!

[Syd Thrift]

The issue is, adding gender may well be a waste of very little time or resources. It's some extra stuff in Facegen, another field in the DB, and maybe some on-the-fly rewrites of some news articles to add a new pronoun option. Honestly it's probably not that big of a deal, and "it's a waste of time and resources" turns into a soft way to oppose it without having to out yourself.

The AAGPBL was indeed a part of history. It would be neat to construct an alternate universe where that didn't die out after World War II, or for that matter to create a baseball equivalent of the WNBA.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The issue is, it's a waste of development time and resources TO ME.

FIFY.


I could argue the biggest waste of development time and resources has been the introduction of 3D because I never use it, but see, I understand I'm not alone in playing the game, and others might actually appreciate to have the option.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The issue is, it's a waste of development time and resources.

There are a great many things that the development team has spent time on which members of this forum consider wastes of time and resources. And that's fair enough. For you, clearly, this would be one of those things. For others it is a desired addition to the game.
Ultimately, it will be up to the developers, Markus especially, to decide whether it is worth the effort or not. And they know far better than I do, and I suspect far better than you do, just how much work this would require and are in a better position to do a cost-benefit analysis on this idea.

There is clearly some level of desire for this and also some level of resistance as well.
My guess is that real world events are at least leading to some need on the part of the development team to start to figure out how to add female characters to the game. I also would guess, that as with many features in OOTP, this might need to be rolled out incrementally. If this is a feature desired by enough paying customers, and that might bring in new paying customers, it seems like now is a great time to start to explore the possibilities, as necessity demands that OOTP finds a way to include real-world baseball executives like Kim Ng.

Whether you or I, individually, think that it is worth expending energy and resources on is not terribly relevant.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The issue is, it's a waste of development time and resources.

Not if it helps to expand their market.

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Not if it helps to expand their market.

I think with the Marlins hiring Ng, we will see the little pawns and pawnless (is that a word) front office staff/managers have a gender designation in OOTP22.....at the very least the news stories will be fixed

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Not if it helps to expand their market.

Also, it's ok for businesses to something just because it's the right thing to do

[SirSaab]

Lots of interesting conversation, but the answer to the only question that matters has not been answered. Is there a good reason why the ability to create and play with women is NOT included “out of the box” (no facegen mods etc) in OOTP?

Women have historically played in professional leagues. Women currently play at the professional and independent level, and, most importantly, women EXIST. I love the game. This is a glaring omission, plain and simple.

I’d like nothing more than to be able to create a female player in my daughter’s likeness, put her in rookie ball, and watch her develop as a player, and then say, “Hey Talia, come here and look, you made the 20xx Giants roster out of spring training!”

No good reason for out of the box support and inclusion of female players and leagues has been posited. Only feelings and equivocations.

[RchW]

This happening today seems apropos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn37oZ4gO_o

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...n-horse-racing

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by SirSaab

Lots of interesting conversation, but the answer to the only question that matters has not been answered. Is there a good reason why the ability to create and play with women is NOT included “out of the box” (no facegen mods etc) in OOTP?

there's a Facegen maker in the mods. you can create your own female players with a "little" practice (that translates to A LOT). Only issue is the pronouns never are never going to be correct in the game. A while back, i made a league i played for 63 season with females in the game. it was a lot of work and honestly many of my facegens were pretty bad. but it was sort of fun to see females first introduced as a novelty, until one won the Cy Young. Then i added more. Finally got bogged down with other life issues and let that league go to dust.

But as far as getting females in the game, with work and lots of time, you can do it. Just not out of the box. (but i haven't played an out of the box version of the game since i started with version 14.) i understand the developers have to make a balance of their time and priorities. If females in the game remain a low priority, we can correct it for ourselves.

[Déjà Bru]

In only two days, this thread is already closing in on the current front-runner thread named "So what MIGHT OOTPBB22 have to offer ?" which began in August. In terms of posts, not views. Who knows as to the latter?

[SirSaab]

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

there's a Facegen maker in the mods. you can create your own female players with a "little" practice (that translates to A LOT). Only issue is the pronouns never are never going to be correct in the game. A while back, i made a league i played for 63 season with females in the game. it was a lot of work and honestly many of my facegens were pretty bad. but it was sort of fun to see females first introduced as a novelty, until one won the Cy Young. Then i added more. Finally got bogged down with other life issues and let that league go to dust.

But as far as getting females in the game, with work and lots of time, you can do it. Just not out of the box. (but i haven't played an out of the box version of the game since i started with version 14.) i understand the developers have to make a balance of their time and priorities. If females in the game remain a low priority, we can correct it for ourselves.

The tone of your response is quite cordial, and so I don’t mean this as a combative response. The question at this point seems to be WHY female facegen and a simple gender dropdown box are not included when female presence in the MLB is growing. In a game based almost wholly on the opportunity to live in a fictional baseball universe, not including non-fictional realities seems... like a big oversight.

Chalking it up to low dev priority just means that perhaps dev priorities need to change. Certainly with all that Com2 money pouring in (tongue firmly in cheek here), some resources can be assigned to tweak the facegen engine and add a gender dropdown box on creation.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by SirSaab

Lots of interesting conversation, but the answer to the only question that matters has not been answered. Is there a good reason why the ability to create and play with women is NOT included “out of the box” (no facegen mods etc) in OOTP?

Women have historically played in professional leagues. Women currently play at the professional and independent level, and, most importantly, women EXIST. I love the game. This is a glaring omission, plain and simple.

I’d like nothing more than to be able to create a female player in my daughter’s likeness, put her in rookie ball, and watch her develop as a player, and then say, “Hey Talia, come here and look, you made the 20xx Giants roster out of spring training!”

No good reason for out of the box support and inclusion of female players and leagues has been posited. Only feelings and equivocations.

I think the reason is pretty obvious, even if it's not a great one. There just hasn't been the demand for it - or at least a vocal demand - which is why there aren't very many games of other types that include female or non-binary athletes. I am far from a big-time gamer, so I haven't played that many games, but outside of some females in NBA 2K and maybe in FIFA (I might be wrong about that), I can't think of any other console or desktop sports games built around major professional leagues that include women. (A version of Tiger Woods a while back had a few female golfers, as well.)

Now, as we're seeing with this thread, the demand is clearly growing for those genders to be included, and they are overdue.

[sdw1000]

Originally Posted by MaeNekoChan

Imagine having this perspective about allowing black athletes to play in the MLB or god forbid representing them in OOTP. Why are they being sooo political??? I really hope you don't dismiss the women in your life like this?

Good job Leftist...you've taken over the freakin message board.

[MaeNekoChan]

Originally Posted by sdw1000

Good job Leftist...you've taken over the freakin message board.

I haven't taken over anything friendo. The people of this board are the ones positively responding to this thread. Thank God, it's our thread now, not mine

I appreciate everyone's support and all the thoughtful commentary and feedback on here today. I cannot believe how fast this topic blew up and the fact that there's so many wonderful people here ready to contribute in their own way I think really speaks volumes to the quality of this board. Especially given the way some female gamers and critics have sadly been harassed and threatened in recent years for topics like this in other spaces, I really appreciate the interactions I've had with you guys here ^_^

[RchW]

Originally Posted by sdw1000

Good job Leftist...you've taken over the freakin message board.

The flailing of a dinosaur heading toward extinction. Too bad so sad.

[BaseballGOAT]

I have done some coding, and while never at the level of this amazing game, I do wonder how much legacy code is still pieced together from over the years? That could make a total shift in the way the game handles gender rather time consuming. But there is ways to include it over time. If I'm not mistaken, there is the ability to create your playable character as a female? so the game already in certain parts knows to look for a gender. It might be possible to more quickly add Women as staff and in their own leagues. Something along the lines of the database seeing if gender is male pull from this part of the database and if female pull from another part of the database. This would allow for correct gender terminology to be used in the news stories. But it might be a better idea to slowly integrate coed leagues as that could need a serious rewrite to be handled efficiently. Just two cents from upperdeck of coding. I could be totally off base of whats able to be done by the devs

[ThePretender]

Originally Posted by sdw1000

Good job Leftist...you've taken over the freakin message board.

You know someone has lost the argument when they're acting like a little delicate snowflake who can't actually make a coherent argument and resorts to swearing.

That's pretty embarrassing. You've turned into the old man yelling at clouds.

Imagine getting so upset about a video game including....women. That's pretty sad. Might be the saddest thing I've seen in the history of the forums.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by sdw1000

Good job Leftist...you've taken over the freakin message board..

I lean pretty far to the right and I think what MaeNekoChan asked for is a great idea for OOTP......will it really ruin your day if the little pawns in the game have a gender label attached to them? If it does, you need a new hobby and some time to take a long look in the mirror and ask what happened to your life.

The game is full of options already, I am sure this will be another one of those optional features. There currently aren't any Women's Pro Leagues (that I am aware of), so if you play the Standard game, you won't need to play with them on. But remember, the Marlins hired a female GM....so I am sure she will be in the game and when you read news stories, you will see 'her/she' as the pronouns. This game is large enough to allow for people to play it how they want to and it really is not any of our business how they do so. Sit back, grab a coffee or whatever your beverage of choice is and take deep breaths and long sips and relax.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by RchW

The flailing of a dinosaur heading toward extinction. Too bad so sad.

And one day you will also be one and smarter.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by sdw1000

redacted

.

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Wow.
Typical of a certain type of person to be like this.

And a certain kind of person to like this. Nice company some people keep.
Venn Diagram: people who liked sdw1000's previous post and people who hate me.